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To: P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; zeeba neighba; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
It's funny but every time I get into a discussion with Catholics -- and particularly with Orthodox -- I am numbered among the Calvinists. I think it is because I accept the absolute authority of scripture.

I would disagree PM. I think it's simply because you, as a Protestant, are closer to the concept of election and predestination. These are directly tied to God's omniscience and omnipotent attributes. The Orthodox abandoned election (if they ever had it) very early on. The Roman Catholics officially abandoned election during the Reformation even though as Augustine pointed out it was a major belief of the Church. Protestants are slowly losing this concept and today you'll find a lot of Protestants either agreeing with the Catholics and Orthodox or they will sit silently by. As this article points out, this was the main contention of Luther and Erasmus.

If people thought it through a bit they would come to the same conclusion Augustine came to; "There is nothing that we have that we have not been given by God."

911 posted on 01/10/2006 6:14:06 AM PST by HarleyD ("No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44)
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To: HarleyD
"There is nothing that we have that we have not been given by God."

Including the freedom to choose. I believe Blessed Augustine maitained that man was created with free will, otherwise he would have been a heretic. What he said is true because, contrary to your implication, the Orthodox anc the Catholics believe that God knows everything and all, and that He is the source and the cause of everything and all, including the free will.

Again, if everything is God's micromanagement and doing, and we have no autonomy within His creation, we are not guilty of anything. The whole concept of sin and redemption becomes meaningless.

917 posted on 01/10/2006 6:48:09 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: HarleyD
the concept of election and predestination. These are directly tied to God's omniscience and omnipotent attributes

I respectfully disagree -- election and predestination are not directly tied to God's omniscience and omnipotence. God knows ALL and can do anything. However, we disagree that he forces people to go to hell.
919 posted on 01/10/2006 7:12:11 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: HarleyD
"There is nothing that we have that we have not been given by God."

Amen. Scripture points this out over and over.

And once that realization takes hold, life is much clearer, surer, energetic and confident. Our lives becomes solidly anchored by a confidence which Christ wants us to have because it is a confidence in Him.

926 posted on 01/10/2006 9:57:26 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (an ambassador in bonds)
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