Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: P-Marlowe; annalex
I am not a Calvinist, however I doubt very seriously if there was any man before him or after him who had a more thorough and singular understanding of scripture. You can dismiss him as a heretic, but your inane vitriolic insults about who he was without specifically answering the points he raised is evidence to me that you do not have the ammunition to refute his position. So fire away. You are shooting blanks.

I can name quite a few men who knew and understood Scripture MUCH better than Calvin, starting with St. Augustine, St. John Crysostom, and many of the Church Fathers who literally had memorized the Scriptures. Don't you realize that Calvin's claim to fame was taking Luther's system and twisting Scriptures to fit it into a system that seemed to make sense to the Protestnat who was uninitiated in the Scriptures? I can name several PROTESTANTS who were superior to Calvin in Scripture interpretation, starting with John Wesley.

The fact of the matter is that the whole idea of Purgatory is anathema to the whole of scripture and to any and all true systematic theology.

Saying it doesn't make it so. You have given me no proof that there is not a third state of existence after death, a fact believed by Christians especially in their DOCUMENTED practice of praying for the sake of their dead, a useless task IF there was ONLY a heaven and hell.

Christ's work on the cross was finished when he so proclaimed it.

Christ's work just began after His death on the cross. Otherwise, why bother telling disciples to baptize and to preach and teach the Word? Why did He bother sending His Spirit? For what purpose? No, Christ isn't up in heaven sipping on Pina Coladas... He is active within His Church, sending His Spirit among us to bring us to Him.

But since the wages of sin is death, you will never be able to purge yourself from any of your sins

We agree. I never said I could!

If Christ alone does not purge you of your sins, then your sins will go with you to the grave.

That's what Christ does in Purgatory... Purge us beleivers of our remaining sins and evil mindsets that remain.

Regards

8,521 posted on 06/13/2006 5:46:13 PM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8499 | View Replies ]


bttt


8,523 posted on 06/13/2006 5:46:35 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (No.... wire .... hangers!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8521 | View Replies ]

To: jo kus; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl; George W. Bush; 1000 silverlings; ...
I can name quite a few men who knew and understood Scripture MUCH better than Calvin, starting with St. Augustine, St. John Crysostom, and many of the Church Fathers who literally had memorized the Scriptures. Don't you realize that Calvin's claim to fame was taking Luther's system and twisting Scriptures to fit it into a system that seemed to make sense to the Protestant who was uninitiated in the Scriptures?

LOLOL. Protestants were "uninitiated in the Scriptures???" This from the church that forbid the reading of God's word by the general populace. It was the Reformation which opened the Bible to every man who wanted to read it.

I can name several PROTESTANTS who were superior to Calvin in Scripture interpretation, starting with John Wesley.

Well, most Reformed would certainly agree that your Romanist philosophy is more closely aligned with Wesley than with Calvin.

More's the pity.

You have given me no proof that there is not a third state of existence after death

It's not necessary to prove a negative. The burden is on you to find the fictitious concept of purgatory in Scripture. Save your time; it's not there.

a fact believed by Christians especially in their DOCUMENTED practice of praying for the sake of their dead, a useless task IF there was ONLY a heaven and hell.

To be consistent, you do not know if you're praying for someone who is already in heaven, but who you think might be still in purgatory. So using your own logic, those prayers could well be a "useless task."

Christ's work just began after His death on the cross.

Now you are negating the Trinity and the work of the Holy Spirit. The more I read of your church the more I realize the heart of the Reformation was truly fought over Justification by God's grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

Every debt Christ died for has been paid in full. You are forgiven, Jo kus. God has blotted out your sins from yesterday and tomorrow. Rejoice and spread the Good News.

"The necessity of Christ's satisfaction to divine justice is, as it were, the center and hinge of all doctrines of pure revelation. Other doctrines are of little importance comparatively except as they have respect to this." -- Jonathan Edwards

"Those whom, God effectually calls he also freely justifies, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them as their righteousness, but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God" -- Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 11.

"Justification is a judicial act of God, in which He declares, on the basis of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, that all the claims of the law are satisfied with respect to the sinner." -- L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology, p. 513.

"The phrase in ipso (in him) I have preferred to retain, rather than render it per ipsum (by him,) because it has in my opinion more expressiveness and force. For we are enriched in Christ, inasmuch as we are members of his body, and are engrafted into him: nay more, being made one with him, he makes us share with him in every thing that he has received from the Father." -- John Calvin, Commentary on 1 Cor 1:5

And if all this is true, purgatory is nothing more than a vain fever-dream, a useless and errant obstruction to understanding God's grace.

The Gospel is truly much richer than you imagine. It is not speculative in the least. It is firm and absolute and accomplishes everything God intends.

8,531 posted on 06/13/2006 7:05:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8521 | View Replies ]

To: jo kus
I can name several PROTESTANTS who were superior to Calvin in Scripture interpretation, starting with John Wesley.

This is novel claim. I had no idea that anyone considered him theologically sound, let alone profound. On this forum we don't generally ridicule him greatly for his sad little commentary because there are members and clergy of the Wesleyan churches here. He was a very spiritual man and inspired many in his time but he was a poor systematic theologian and created some mischief with scripture.
8,543 posted on 06/13/2006 9:50:19 PM PDT by George W. Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8521 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson