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To: HarleyD; kosta50; Agrarian; Forest Keeper; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg
In short, you have no clue why Christ asked you to pray Our Father:

- "Thy will be done", you acknowledge, is a meaningless petition.

- "Forgive us our sins", you say, is so that we get rewards. What rewards? What if our sins are not forgiven, -- do we still end up in heaven? Hello?

- "Do not lead us into temptation", you again say that it does not happen, so it is a meaningless petition.

- "Deliver us from evil" -- according to you we should not pray it because the "evil" here is annoyances of life that are really good for us. But that would have been covered under "temptations" would it not?

While the Doury-Rheims translates it "supersubstantial" there is nothing in the Greek that would indicate this is anything other than daily sustenance. I think Jerome got a bit excited.

"epiousion" is exactly "supersubstantial". "Sufficient" is a possible meaning (emeran, daily, is a separate word in both gospels), but "supersubstantial" is the precise meaning. If the evangelists wanted to stick to the simple "daily", they would not have added this rather extravagant epithet.

8,254 posted on 06/08/2006 7:33:34 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; kosta50; Agrarian; Forest Keeper; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg
In short, you have no clue why Christ asked you to pray Our Father:

Yes, yes. I seem to be accused of that a lot lately.

"Thy will be done", you acknowledge, is a meaningless petition.

Thy will be done-acknowledging God's sovereignty-is NOT a meaningless petition. What precisely do you think it means "on earth as it is in heaven". Is this meaningless too since we can't control the events of heaven? Do you think that God cannot control the events of heaven? You completely misinterpret this.

You completely miss the purpose of prayer (along with about 95% of the Christian population these days). It is NOT a laundry list to a Santa Claus God to do what you want. Prayer is to bring glory to God. It's because we don't truly know the proper way to prayer that the Spirit prays for us.

"epiousion" is exactly "supersubstantial".

I liked Agrarian thoughtful explanation. It is true that epiousion occurs only in the Lord's Prayer but I'm not sure how unique it is. It would require research in comparing other Greek text of the time to see if it is truly unique.

That being said, there still remains NOTHING that supports this as the Eucharist. You are reading far more into this then what is there simply to boaster a flawed doctrine.

8,270 posted on 06/09/2006 2:27:01 AM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luke 24:45)
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