Yes, the two are very different. That's why I used the word "relationship" as in "relationship between". I think you have said that Baptism is how people become "in Christ". But at the same time, Baptism is only good until the next mortal sin, at which point they are again "out of Christ". So, what happens to the adult believer who is never baptized, but is very faithful about going to confession and is totally "covered" on that front? Assume he has confessed every major sin and had them all forgiven. Since you don't believe in original sin, (therefore Baptism doesn't need to take care of it), how is this guy any different from someone who has been baptized?
Grace is not shoved down our throat against our will. God's grace is there whether we want it or not, whether we understand it or not, whether we know it or not.
Infant Baptism is precisely shoving grace down the throat of the infant! :) I'm sure it is literally true many times that there is kicking and screaming! How many infants do you think enjoy having their breathing interrupted three times in a row? I doubt many. This is why infant Baptism puzzles me so much. Normally, I'm the guy who says that God will grace those whom He will and that is that. Your side and the Catholics will say 'No', grace must be freely accepted by the recipient in all cases EXCEPT for the remission of sins. Kiddingly, I suppose the equivalent to my side would be holding a gun to someone's head to recite the sinner's prayer. :)
Baptism is a petition to God to elect the soul of the one being baptized into the Body of Christ (Church). If that soul has any sin, the Holy Spirit will cleanse at the adoption. In the case of children, they don't have to confess or repent because they do not know, and infants (as far as we Orthodox are cocnerned) have no sins. In the case of adults, confession and repentance is required.
The promise of that adoption applies to adults and children (cf Acts 2:37) equally.
But at the same time, Baptism is only good until the next mortal sin, at which point they are again "out of Christ"
You have stated this nonsense in the past. God does not change His mind. You can not be un-baptized. Once adopted, He will not disown you. But, that does not mean that you have a sure ticket to heaven if, at the end of your life, you say I "do it my way," if in your heart you are Forest Keeper and not Chirst-like.
The idea that "once saved" you can sin boldly, confident that — as God's elect — you cannot perish, is precisely where Satan's great deception becomes obvious.
Every time you sin, and we all sin all the time, you tarnish the likeness of God which God gave us.
So, what happens to the adult believer who is never baptized, but is very faithful about going to confession and is totally "covered" on that front?
A "spotless" believer who does not believe in Christ's own commandment (cf Mat 28:19) is hardly your perfect Christian.
how is this guy any different from someone who has been baptized?
The former is a sinner pretending to be a Christian.
Infant Baptism is precisely shoving grace down the throat of the infant!
Being accepted by God is shoving grace down someone's throat? God invites you to come to Him. One has to actually get up and walk in Christ's footsteps to get there. God won't beam you up, FK.
Baptism washes away any sins — if there are any sins — before being adopted into the Body of Christ. Baptism is the adoption. Remission of sins, if any, is a pre-condition for that adoption.
I thought that God "shoved" grace down your throat, too! Now, you're complaining because you didn't get to earn your faith from God?
How many infants do you think enjoy having their breathing interrupted three times in a row? I doubt many. This is why infant Baptism puzzles me so much.
Say what?
Your side and the Catholics will say 'No', grace must be freely accepted by the recipient in all cases EXCEPT for the remission of sins.
Infant baptism is given by God JUST as it is given to an adult being baptised. It is just that in the infant's case, the faith of the parents serves as the response to God in proxy, just as it did for Jewish babies who were circumcised. Baptism is acts as a seed, which later grows as the baby matures. Really, if God grants graces to whom He will and does so WITHOUT seeing their response (as you believe), what difference does it make if God's Spirit comes while a baby or an adult? The person does nothing to earn grace, so the person's age makes no difference.
Regards
" But at the same time, Baptism is only good until the next mortal sin, at which point they are again "out of Christ". "
This is what the Fathers taught. +Symeon the New Theolgian put it this way:
"Baptism does not take away our free will or freedom of choice, but gives us the freedom no longer to be tyrannized by the devil unless we choose to be. After baptism it is in our power either to persist willingly in the practice of the commandments of Christ, into Whom we were baptized, and to advance in the path of His ordinances, or to deviate from this straight way and to fall again into the hands of our enemy, the devil."