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To: jo kus; HarleyD; kosta50; Forest Keeper; George W. Bush; Kolokotronis; Agrarian

"Can faith [without works] SAVE him?" NO! James 2:14

Except to Protestants, this seems pretty darn clear..."

Paul has a different take on this:

Eph 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

He says after one trusts, not works and not trusts and works, that you are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession. In Romans 8 Paul says nothing nor any other creature can separate us from Him, which includes ourselves. That seems pretty clear to anyone familiar with the whole New Testament except those of course who have made works based and professional confession part of their tradition.


7,314 posted on 05/29/2006 5:32:22 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan
In Romans 8 Paul says nothing nor any other creature can separate us from Him, which includes ourselves.

I disagree. Paul does NOT say that we can't separate ourselves from God! Paul is clear in that VERY CHAPTER that those who live according to the flesh - even those "saved" - will DIE!

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if ye live according to the flesh, ye shall die; Rom 8:12-13

That seems pretty clear to anyone familiar with the whole New Testament except those of course who have made works based and professional confession part of their tradition.

Naturally - unless, of course, the Protestant only reads tracts that put together the so-called Sola Fide by cutting and pasting verses together. The Bible says man needs faith and works. We don't rely on our own works, but on God's working within us. Isn't this clear in Romans 8 that the Spirit is working within us?

Regards

7,328 posted on 05/30/2006 5:44:34 AM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others (St.Crysostom))
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To: blue-duncan; jo kus; HarleyD; kosta50; Forest Keeper; George W. Bush; Kolokotronis; Agrarian

You took one phrase from Eph 1:11, spun it to suit your particular supertition, and ignored all the scriptural evidence shown in Jo's 7311, including, of course, that same Ephesians that exhorts our good works in Eph 2:10 and all chapters 4 through 6.

Ephesians 2 explains that our works are possible through Christ's grace working through us; which is, of course, the Catholic teaching. In Ephesians Paul does not teach that works of charity are innecessary; he spends the rest of the Epistle to teach that they are very much necessary.

You Baptists should read the Gospel every once in a while.


7,365 posted on 05/30/2006 4:41:37 PM PDT by annalex
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