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To: George W. Bush
It would appear that Mary's refusal would have caused the entire damnation of the human race then.

God saw to it that Mary wouldn't refuse by preparing her, even in the womb, for her role in salvation history. God certainly foresaw Mary's "yes".

So Mary must have been some sort of Calvinist who succumbed to Irresistable Grace

Grace can be resisted. But God foresaw that it would not be due to His sight and preparation of the vessel that would hold the Christ.

You suggest that Mary was not entirely a creature fully possessed of free will.

Not at all. That is why Mary is so highly honored - due to her "yes" and God's graces that He singularly had given to Mary.

In so doing, you rob Christ of His full humanity

So Mary must possess complete free will for Christ to be fully human? How so? Not that I am saying Mary did not have free will! But I am intrigued on how you came up with that conclusion.

Regards

6,996 posted on 05/22/2006 9:16:09 AM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
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To: jo kus
God saw to it that Mary wouldn't refuse by preparing her, even in the womb, for her role in salvation history. God certainly foresaw Mary's "yes".

Uh-oh, you're getting a little close to Calvin there. The biblical accounts are true that God prepared certain individuals from the womb for their roles, that they were predestined to them. And yet, those individuals each chose of their own free will to love God, to serve Him and often to sacrifice their lives for Him. One sees this with John the Baptist and others. And it is just as true that God's plan requires that many who shall be saved will not come to Him for many years, some even in old age.

So Mary must possess complete free will for Christ to be fully human? How so? Not that I am saying Mary did not have free will! But I am intrigued on how you came up with that conclusion.

Free will is an essential part of every human being and even for angels. It was an essential feature of Mary. And of Jesus himself as He accepted His role as Christ.

The Father is not interested in robots, it seems. We Calvinist types like to say that man's free will is not violated by God's unalterable and unfolding plan of creation. And man's free will does not diminish God's free will. It is merely that man's free will in this matter of predestination is fully enfolded in God's free will and his plan for the salvation of those He adopted as His children from the foundation of the world.

Diminishing Jesus from being fully a man is a well-known root of heresy from ancient times, as you Orthodox know well from the church fathers. Naturally, the full outworking of Jesus Christ's dual nature can never be fully known to us and we should be cautious in our speculation about something that cannot be fully known to us but scripture is very clear on this point.

Without full free will, neither Mary nor Jesus could be what scripture says they are.
7,046 posted on 05/23/2006 8:39:40 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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