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To: annalex
"Original sin is, among other things, physical death. We were not made to die originally, but the sin of Adam corrupted our nature. This is the wound. It delivers physical death, but it does not deliver spiritual death. spiritual death comes about when one rejects the Kingdom of Heaven by committing an actual sin, a sin of the will."

Thanks, Annalex. "If" I am reading you correctly, the fall of Adam is not related to why we commit day-to-day sins today. If so, let's suppose that in the history of the world, there have been 8 billion people. If it is not Adam's fall, what is the reason that the current sin scorecard is 8 billion (minus 1 :) to one?

627 posted on 01/07/2006 3:10:33 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
If it is not Adam's fall, what is the reason that the current sin scorecard is 8 billion (minus 1 :) to one?

IIRC, Most Catholics think that Jesus was the second person to live a wholly sinless life.

What the heck are you doing up this late?

628 posted on 01/07/2006 3:17:21 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: Forest Keeper; annalex

""If" I am reading you correctly, the fall of Adam is not related to why we commit day-to-day sins today. If so, let's suppose that in the history of the world, there have been 8 billion people. If it is not Adam's fall, what is the reason that the current sin scorecard is 8 billion (minus 1 :) to one?"

I shouldn't answer this for Alex, but I will anyway because Greeks are pushy people. The Sin of Adam so distorted the nature of mankind, that men could not "hit the mark" anymore; they sinned. In the Orthodox understanding, man was created in a state of potential theosis and equipped to become "like God". Death and sin did not exist. When Adam sinned human nature became twisted in such a way that on their own they couldn't not sin. By the Incarnation, the potential of theosis which was an attribute of our original creation was restored, the power of death was destroyed and we weren't bound to continue sinning. We were given a second chance". As I observed earlier, this is why Orthodoxy calls Christ the "New Adam".

It occurs to me that the Protestant idea of salvation being a single event in life is consistent with another Western theological idea that Adam and Eve were created in full perfection, a notion which the East has never accepted.

In any event, it was indeed the Sin of Adam which brought sin into the world. But Adam's sin doesn't spiritually kill any of us because while we bear the consequences of Adams Sin, we don't share his guilt. We are guilty of our own sins.


632 posted on 01/07/2006 4:37:05 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper

AS I replied privately, the sin of Adam is not a sin we are to repent of or atone for. It is a condition, manifested in our hormones, mental abilities, and foremostly mortality. What we in the West call original sin is a condition of imperfect will that makes us prone to commit actual sins. It also is a condition that makes us unable to reach a union with God. Baptism is necessary to allow the potentiality of union with God, and in that sense Baptism remits the original sin. Most baptized, however, go on to commit actual sin even after baptism, and only some of them, but not all, will be saved in the end.


785 posted on 01/09/2006 12:43:15 PM PST by annalex
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