[jo kus]

Did I say God is sadistic? God allows evil to happen to carry out His plan-nothing more. God himself bring calamity on man. Why would you think this is sadistic?

How else am I supposed to take your emphasis and underlining of the following Scripture without explanation: But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting {Him} to grief;?

I don't believe in "once-saved always-saved". I believe in perseverance of the saints.

And naturally, God told you that you are infallibly one of them... How many Protestants do you know of your persuasion make the same claim?

I would suggest you spend a bit more time in the Old Testament and a little less time in cathecism. If God didn't allow Adam to sin there would be no need for Christ.

Perhaps. I intend on reading the Book of Judith next week. "Oh happy fault, Adam, that brought us such a Savior"... An evil brings about the greatest of good.

All men ALREADY rejects God. It's a matter of God's divine grace to change our hearts so that we will accept Him.

I disagree. Man does not have the ability to do good consistently without God. We are born without sanctifying grace. Our intellect is clouded. Our will is damaged. This does not mean we REJECT God. To reject something means we must have full culpability and knowledge of what we are rejecting. Thus, Satan was given one opportunity to reject - and is forever cast out of God's presence. God gives us more opportunities because we do not have such a clear view of God's Will. God's graces rain down on the good and evil alike. It is whether the person is prepared to accept God's Graces or allow them to fall in vain upon them that will determine our destiny.

Regards

[HarleyD]

"How else am I supposed to take your emphasis and underlining of the following Scripture without explanation: But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting {Him} to grief;?

My interpretation is that the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting (Him) to grief. This might sound sadistic if all there was was this life. It isn't. God raised His Son to be Lord over all, forever and ever. Amen.

And your interpretation would be???

And naturally, God told you that you are infallibly one of them..

As a matter of fact, yes. Thus sayeth the Lord: "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..." (1 John 5:1). I can't speak for others and what they might believe. But I can rest in His promise. Has He not spoken and will He not fulfill it?

Man does not have the ability to do good consistently without God. We are born without sanctifying grace. Our intellect is clouded. Our will is damaged. This does not mean we REJECT God.

The Roman Catholic Church abandoned Augustine's and the Council of Carthage (418) view of original sin in 1109 (a teaching that had been in the Church for almost 700 years) to introduce Anselm's idea of limbo. A doctrine, btw, that was established against the false view of Pelagius who preached the same thing.

Limbo was used by the Church to answer the question of what happens to all the babies who die. Augustine states that he thought they all went to hell if they weren't baptized. The argument used by the RCC to change this view was that Augustine's view was invented and Anselm view was based more on "tradition". (Funny they didn't see this for almost 700 years.) I'm sure Augustine's view seemed none to kind to the ever "enlightened" Church as it was moving into the Renaissance era.

I wouldn't make the rash judgment of Augustine but it is closer to the truth than a "limbo" as proposed by Anselm which is a muddled mess of a doctrine, IMHO. If anyone can figure out the official view of the Catholic Church on limbo here is the website. Have at it. They don’t want to say Augustine was right but that would be to admit Pelagius was right.

Augustine was right to state that man's nature is corrupt. Paul states:

Rom 3:9-18 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE. THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING, THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS; WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS; THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN. THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

That to me sounds like more than man's intellect is clouded. There is no fixing the problem. You must be born again.

[Cronos]

And naturally, God told you that you are infallibly one of them

Ah, yes, the Key point. Since the Protestant definition of God picks and Chooses whom He wants, who's to say that He hasn't picked ANY OF us? That we have no way to redeem ourselves? That we are damned with no hope of salvation? That being baptized in whatever Church will not save us? How do you know that or not? Your prayingm, your actions etc. have no bearing, so you can do as you please because God has already chosen, so if you are in the "elect", you can lead a hedonistic life and yet wind up in heaven and if you aren't in the "elect", you can live like a saint and still burn? Wouldn't that be in line with your churches' teachings, Forest, Harley, Marlowe, ItsOurTimeNow ?