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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus
But, if we persevere through our own actions, then why isn’t that earning salvation?

We are "initiated" into the Church by patism and "justified" by faith that is God-given. However, man must humble himself to believe in God. If you try to "reason" and say I can never understand God, what good is believing something I can't see or understand, then you are placing man's pride and arrogance in the way and blocking or rejecting God's overtures; you are making the man the final arbiter as to what is possible.

Being "saved" in Orthodoxy (and I am quite sure in Catholicism too) means "how Christ-like" you are -- hitting the mark. How Christ-like is sufficient? As much as possible! That is whay we venerate our saints, people who have attained that "holiness" about them through works of faith, through meekness, through renunciation of everything worldly, through humility, through love, through self-sacrifice, etc. These are the people in whom we recognize the light of God, through whom we hear the words of God, by whose works we see the blessings of God.

Obviously, when you accept faith that is God-given, you do not instantly become Christ-like. Regaining the likeness of God we lost through Adam is a process (we call it theosis, the Catholics sanctification) that combines our free will to follow God and asking God to lead us; it literally means "deification" in Greek, or "becoming holy" in Latin.

5,315 posted on 04/29/2006 10:39:18 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; jo kus
FK: "But, if we persevere through our own actions, then why isn’t that earning salvation?"

Being "saved" in Orthodoxy (and I am quite sure in Catholicism too) means "how Christ-like" you are -- hitting the mark. How Christ-like is sufficient? As much as possible! That is why we venerate our saints, people who have attained that "holiness" about them through works of faith, through meekness, through renunciation of everything worldly, through humility, through love, through self-sacrifice, etc.

I appreciate your (entire) post, but I'm not sure how it answers my question. My understanding of salvation in Catholicism is as you say also, a lifelong process that really isn't completed until after death. During life, we use our free will to perform various works of faith and other godly deeds in order to become more Christ-like. My question is that SINCE free will is free, and uncoerced, and of man, then how is this not earning our salvation? I'll even throw out intent in any negative sense. Isn't it true that if a man performs "X" amount of deeds to achieve a level of Christ-likeness to an "X" degree, then he is saved? Even if all the deeds were done from love, is this still not earning it?

5,376 posted on 05/02/2006 2:00:10 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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