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Scriptures mention "being saved" as a past, a present, or a future act. ... Often times, Protestants refer to the one past event, while Catholics are referring to the future event. Thus, the misunderstandings.

I appreciate your point, but I would hasten to add that there remain strong differences as to the method of salvation.

The promises that you mention are rules of thumb for the general person.

God's promises are rules of thumb to you? Rules of thumb can be bent or broken depending on the circumstances. Do you really see a promise from God as less than a sure thing?

No one can snatch me out of Christ's hand, but I can willingly leave the flock.

Presumably, you mean "and lose your salvation". You just said that you have the power to snatch yourself out of God's hand. I would say that if your salvation was true, God would not let you do that.

Christ (and Paul in Romans 8) is referring to an external force that pries us out of God's grasp. If God respects the freedom of man - if God awaits our response to the choice He lays before us, then there must be a possibility that we will fall. Clearly, this means that God knew we would turn away. Does God force us to do good or evil?

First, by external force, do you mean "yourself", as in above?

I say that God knows the freedom of man, and it is to choose evil. It is our born nature. Therefore, out of His love for us He does not defer to it, but rather saves the elect in spite of it.

If God awaits a response from us, when He already knows the (sometimes, bad) answer, how is this any less horrible than the God I have been describing throughout this whole thread? You seem to (correctly) admit that no chance is involved. Why does God "await"?

As to whether God "forces" us to do good, it depends on what you mean by force. (God never forces us to do evil. That's not His nature.) As for good, imagine you have just returned to your car from a long walk in the grocery store parking lot. You then discover the cashier mistakenly gave you $5 change you were not owed. The Spirit moves your conscience to compel you to walk all the way back to return the money. Assume you never would have done this before your faith. Were you "forced"? I would say that if you did it, then yes.

God's promises are rules of thumb to you? Rules of thumb can be bent or broken depending on the circumstances. Do you really see a promise from God as less than a sure thing?

Sorry, let me try again. Throughout the Scriptures, when God makes a covenant with man, He makes promises - not because He has to, but because He desires to. He binds Himself. We don't bind Him. He promises not to break His promise. But when we fail, He allows us to suffer the consequences of breaking the promise. Isn't that pretty clear in the Old Testament? If we part company with God in the New Covenant, God will again allow us to have what we desire - eternal life without Him. Thus, God's promises will not change - but He respects our decision to sin and even to turn away from Him. This freedom to sin is NOT removed when we become "saved".

Presumably, you mean "and lose your salvation". You just said that you have the power to snatch yourself out of God's hand. I would say that if your salvation was true, God would not let you do that.

The problem with "if your salvation was true" is that WE don't know, only God knows if we are truly of the flock that hears His voice. By placing the onus on yourself to determine if you are saved, you take away God's free will on who is of the elect, aren't you? Do you know any of your Protestant brothers who say that they do NOT have saving faith yet??? It seems to me that YOU are making the judgment on whether you are saved, not God

First, by external force, do you mean "yourself", as in above?

We are not an external force to ourselves. Only WE can cause our own demise - only we can "return to the vomit" of our former ways. No one can pry us from God's "hands" unwillingly. The devil is allowed to tempt us, but he cannot tempt us beyond our means to resist. Thus, this implies that we WILLINGLY sin. If we willingly sin enough, we will NOT inherit the Kingdom. Whether you want to refer to this as "losing one's salvation" or "never having it in the first place" is semantics. The bottom line is that we won't enjoy heaven if we do not abide in Christ. (1 John 5:12 - today's reading in Catholic Churches)

I say that God knows the freedom of man, and it is to choose evil. It is our born nature.

I respectfully disagree. We, as men, have a TENDENCY to choose evil. However, even the pagan can choose good. As a Catholic, I believe that our will is damaged, our intellect is fogged. We cannot clearly see, nor can we willingly select the best course of action that leads us to God. Sometimes, we can. We tend towards evil. But that is a wounded nature. If we were evil by nature, we'd always choose the evil. Scripture points out some examples of people who choose good, for example, Abel.

The Church has always taught that two choices lay before us (as Deuteronomy explains). To choose good or evil. Apparently, God condescends to allow us to choose. I presume this is out of His great Love for us. When you love, you do not force the other to love you back. God is magnanimous. His allowing us a choice points that much more to His greater glory. Since God is Love, God allows us this choice - to choose Him or not. If God's Love is unconditional, that means He continues to Love us, even if we reject Him (a difficult concept for us humans!). Thus, I cannot see God forcing to Love Him. Yes, He knows who will accept Him. However, He gives ALL men the chance to accept Him - since God desires all men to be saved. Since we know that some will not, we proclaim with the Church that these men have FREELY CHOSEN to reject God. God knows who these people are, as well. But foreknowledge doesn't mean He infallibly ordained those people to reject God.

If I know what the flip of a coin will be, does it follow that I caused it? Am I culpable by allowing it to occur, even though I know the result? In the end, God allows people to condemn themselves to hell - which further will show His great mercy and love. We will then see that each of them received opportunity, but rejected God.

Assume you never would have done this before your faith. Were you "forced"? I would say that if you did it, then yes.

I again disagree, based on my personal experience. There is always that "battle" in the conscience during such events. I don't feel "forced" to do good. My will is slowly being formed to do what Christ does. But it is not perfect. I continue to battle against the flesh, just as the "saved" Paul talks about in Romans 7. No, the battle is NEVER over until we are called to heaven. When I do good, God is moving within me my will and desire, but not infallibly. I still feel that I can say "no". But my will to good is stronger (most of the time!). Thus, I don't believe that God forces me to do good. He AIDS me to do good by transforming my damaged intellect and will. By examining our walk, don't we see that we are slowly becoming more like God? Do we perfectly obey Him just because we have been "saved"? That is not the experience of Christianity. Even the Scriptures see that Christians saved sometimes continue to sin. It's a battle that is not finished yet, brother.

Regards