Funny how all of a sudden the tense becomes important to you, when it suits you. Yes, Christ is a Salvation for a lost world. Without Him we would have no hope of ever being saved. A world without Christ would be a terrible place -- a living hell.
So, God does not get what He wants. God is thwarted.
How naive! God gets what He wants but not in the way you see Him. Our Lord was nothing like you or I. He, the King of Kings, was born in a filthy, cold and dark place of a teenage, unwed Mother. He was a poor Man. His strength was in His "weakness." He did not assert Himself the way we would. He won people over by His humility, love, mercy and justice, righteousness, wisdom, etc. Nothing truly macho about Him!
If the Muslims were scripting Jesus, he would be cutting people's heads off! So, why would the Jews not see HIm as raising cities and killing people by the thousands? And the way you seem to see God, He does whatever He wants, just the way some powerful people act. How wrong you are!
I tell you that if Jesus were walking the earth today, we would have Him committed and ridiculed. You think our society would tolerate a social nobody telling us he is God's Son? You think the society would tolerate someone who was telling us that our bibical passages are misinterpreted, that we should sell everything we have, give the profits to the poor and follow Him?
I suppose that I would say that with free will man cannot be a moral being. I know that you'd agree that we are born sinners
And I say that without a free will he cannot even be human, let alone accountable for his actions. And, no we are not born sinners. We are born with a propensity to sin. For a baby knows nothing and has done nothing. ; tabula rasa
Man's nature is not opposed to God; man's nature thinks we are God. The idea of God exists in all people. But is it misdirected and unfocused. As such, our fallen nature leads us into error and self-deception, and away from God -- i.e. into sin.
Our idea of a God is based falsely on our own perception of power on earth. We tend to see God as as ourselves except bigger and more powerful (as in paganism), but we tend to ascribe to Him the same passions and human attibutes we see in ourselves. Jesus Christ proved us wrong! He was nothing like the God we see in the OT. By our standards, Jesus Christ would be considered a pushover and a troublemaker. What did the High Priest say to Jesus on the Cross? He said if you are the Son of God, then take yourself down from that Cross.
For no one could imagine a God being humiliated, tortured and killed. No one would respect such a god in Israel -- and, based on what I have read from your side, I see that the Protestant idea of God is more akin to that of the Jewish High Priest than of Jesus.
You know that's not fair. You brought up the issue of tense in #376 and I specifically responded to it in #423. I said that tense didn't matter for the point we were then discussing because Baptists believe salvation is a single event. I understood how tense fitted your view, and that was fine. I was just explaining my view, I didn't dodge the issue.
I have no idea what you're talking about in the next paragraphs.
You said: "Jesus said that He came to save many (not all), not because God would not will all men saved, but because some shall not find the path..."
I said: "So, God does not get what He wants. God is thwarted."
You said: "How naive! God gets what He wants but not in the way you see Him. ... And the way you seem to see God, He does whatever He wants, just the way some powerful people act. How wrong you are!
I was commenting on your statement that God wills that all men should be saved, but yet your admission that God doesn't get what He wants. I disagree and say that God gets everything He wants. Yes, He also does whatever He wants, but in no way like "some powerful people act".
Man's nature is not opposed to God; man's nature thinks we are God.
Perhaps the quote of the thread. :)
What did the High Priest say to Jesus on the Cross? He said if you are the Son of God, then take yourself down from that Cross. For no one could imagine a God being humiliated, tortured and killed. No one would respect such a god in Israel -- and, based on what I have read from your side, I see that the Protestant idea of God is more akin to that of the Jewish High Priest than of Jesus.
I still don't understand this assertion, and you are by no means the first to make it. Your side says that our side thinks of God as a God with human weaknesses (like the Greek gods). None of "us" has said this. God has no weaknesses, human or otherwise.
For one of countless examples, we say that God showed "anger" because the Bible said so, and did not use any other word for it. The meaning was clear. The trick is that when God shows anger, it is not a weakness because it is justified according to God. It is a righteous anger. Of course, when we act out on our own anger there are often sinful results, but that cannot happen with God. God is sinless, blameless, and perfect by definition. The High Priest certainly had no understanding of that.