I am not comfortable with "on her own". I am not positive on what Kosta means, I think he will agree that Mary did not choose God without God. However, the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception relies strictly on God's initiative - Mary was saved the loss of sanctifying grace at her birth. We believe that this gift and His continuing graces allowed Mary to remain sinless through out her life (which the Orthodox also believe). I believe our point of disagreement is not over whether Mary sinned or not, but how Mary was able to remain sinless. We believe God gave her a singular grace, along with Mary's own pure will (purified by God), while I believe the Orthodox think that Mary was sinless as a result of her raised theosis/divinization.
Is your position that men are born with enough goodness to freely choose God INDEPENDENTLY of any separate action, after birth, on our hearts by God?
Catholics believe this is dangerously close to Pelagianism. The Council of Orange, later reaffirmed by Trent, specifically stated that men cannot come to God alone - that HE must lead them. Every single person came to God (including Mary) as a result of God's initial calling.
So, then to be absolutely clear, under your belief, God's love for us means that He prizes our freedom of choice for the eighty years or so that we "might" be on earth FAR AND ABOVE OVER where we will spend eternity. That is God's love for us.
The singer "Sting" said it best "If you love someone, set them free". What sort of freedom and eternal happiness is God giving a person by FORCING them to be in heaven? I am detecting a fundamental difference between what you believe happens in heaven and what the Scriptures state. Heaven is not just an earthly paradise (like the Muslims think). Heaven is total spiritual union with God. How is that going to happen if a person has totally separated themselves from God's love on this earth? God is granting what that person desires - an eternal life without Him AND showing His justice to us, as well.
Regards
I am not comfortable with "on her own". ...
I thought that was your view. I have learned much from you, my brother. :)
However, the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception relies strictly on God's initiative - Mary was saved the loss of sanctifying grace at her birth. We believe that this gift and His continuing graces allowed Mary to remain sinless through out her life (which the Orthodox also believe). I believe our [Catholic/Orthodox] point of disagreement is not over whether Mary sinned or not, but how Mary was able to remain sinless. We believe God gave her a singular grace, along with Mary's own pure will (purified by God), while I believe the Orthodox think that Mary was sinless as a result of her raised theosis/divinization.
Yes, what I think I have learned from my Orthodox brothers is that Mary was born in the normal sense and did not sin because she did not have the capacity to sin as a small child. Then, at a tender age, perhaps three, she was given a special grace and there was "The Entrance". She entered the Church for the rest of her upbringing, and through this grace was thereby sinless from the age of reason forward.
[FK to Kosta:] "So, then to be absolutely clear, under your belief, God's love for us means that He prizes our freedom of choice for the eighty years or so that we "might" be on earth FAR AND ABOVE OVER where we will spend eternity. That is God's love for us."
The singer "Sting" said it best "If you love someone, set them free". What sort of freedom and eternal happiness is God giving a person by FORCING them to be in heaven?
Would the cookie mother love her daughter so much that she would set her daughter free to go play in traffic? That's what you are advocating. :) And, again, I disagree with the idea of God "forcing" people into heaven because the obvious connotation is that it is against their will. The gift of God to His elect is an offer they can't refuse, because God gives them the ability to agree that it is so good.
[continuing ...] I am detecting a fundamental difference between what you believe happens in heaven and what the Scriptures state. Heaven is not just an earthly paradise (like the Muslims think).
Heaven is total spiritual union with God. How is that going to happen if a person has totally separated themselves from God's love on this earth? God is granting what that person desires - an eternal life without Him AND showing His justice to us, as well.
And, ... just what part of the second paragraph do I disagree with (because I don't know :)? In what do you detect a disconnect?