Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; jo kus; HarleyD
Muslims are heretics, not terrorists. Some Muslims are terrorists.

I thought I learned from personal experience that being called a heretic was not the ultimate insult because heretics are, how shall I say, "partial breakers from a commonality"? :) Muslims are not like this. Being compared or equated to the theology of Islam would be the ultimate insult.

FK: "Jesus said He WAS GOD!"

Where does He say that? He never said "I am God." The reason why the first four councils were held by the Church was the ambiguity with which some Christians received His divinity, and because it is not stated so simply.

I had not the slightest idea that it was a matter of controversy that Jesus claims to be God in the Bible. Of course there are tons of examples in the Bible that show that Jesus is God, but here are some examples of where He says it Himself. I cannot wait to hear the interpretations of these verses: :)

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

---------------

Ex. 3:14 "God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Now combo this with the following:

John 8:58-59 : 58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

WHY were they going to stone Him? Because everyone knew, INCLUDING Jesus, that He was claiming to be God. And along the same lines:

John 18: 4-6 : 4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?" 5 "Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

Why would the soldiers ready to grab Him fall to the ground? Jesus claimed to be God with full authority and power.

---------------

Rev. 1:8 : "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

AND:

Rev. 1:17-18 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Now, contrast the following:

Is. 44:6 : "This is what the LORD says— Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

In Revelation, is there a dispute we are talking about Jesus here?

---------------

John 5:17-18 : 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus had to know how they would take it, right?

---------------

John 14:5-10 : 5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

If you see and know Jesus then you see and know the Father. They are in each other because they are one essence.

2,621 posted on 02/14/2006 3:28:30 AM PST by Forest Keeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2496 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
"I thought I learned from personal experience that being called a heretic was not the ultimate insult because heretics are, how shall I say, "partial breakers from a commonality"? :) Muslims are not like this. Being compared or equated to the theology of Islam would be the ultimate insult."

In fact, from a historical perspective, there is a good deal of evidence that in fact Mohammadenism is a sort of Judeo/Christian heresy. The Mohammadens of course deny this.

"I had not the slightest idea that it was a matter of controversy that Jesus claims to be God in the Bible. Of course there are tons of examples in the Bible that show that Jesus is God, but here are some examples of where He says it Himself. I cannot wait to hear the interpretations of these verses: :)"

As a matter of fact, the Christological controversies of the early centuries of The Church were precisely about this issue. Read up on the Arians (let alone the almost innumerable other Christological heresies). But for the 1st Ecumenical Council, we might all believe that Christ was some sort of a demi-god. Arianism, by the way, was very widespread in the West, though it arose in the East, for centuries and it was taught by people who thought they were reading the scriptures quite correctly. They ignored the teachings of The Church.
2,623 posted on 02/14/2006 4:07:43 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2621 | View Replies ]

To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; jo kus; HarleyD
All this, and you still have not shown me hwere Jesus says, I quote: "I am God." You misquoted.

"I and the Father are one."

And we are one in Jesus. What does that make us?

Because everyone knew, INCLUDING Jesus, that He was claiming to be God

A Son of God. [Mat 4:3,4:6, 8:29, 14:33, 16:16, etc.]

The priest tells Him in Mat 26:63 "I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God."

Christ answered but not what the priest asked Him. "Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

The Son of man is the second Adam, FK, in the person of Jesus. Although the priest took it as "blasphemy" it is this kind of indirect Gospel language that has given rise to many heresies in the early centuries of Christianity that persist to this day, confusing the orthodox doctrine that Jesus is the Christ, God and Man, two natures, one Person, two wills, in perfect harmony.

This is not in the Scripture. This is derived from the Scripture but not by the Protestant prooftexting.

2,631 posted on 02/14/2006 8:53:36 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2621 | View Replies ]

To: Forest Keeper
I thought I learned from personal experience that being called a heretic was not the ultimate insult because heretics are, how shall I say, "partial breakers from a commonality

You not only like to make up your own quotes, now you fabricate word meanings as well. For the record: heresy is not an insult; it is a treaching that is outside the teaching of the Apostolic Church of Christ. Heretics can only be people who believe in One God. It's not a character description.

2,632 posted on 02/14/2006 9:00:13 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2621 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson