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To: Forest Keeper; stripes1776
Thanks for the comparison to the terrorists. That's real nice

Muslims are heretics, not terrorists. Some Muslims are terrorists. I was not comparing Protestants to terorists, please! And I was corrected, and educated as to which Protestants deny free will (thanks stripes1776!). It turns out, you are actually in minority.

Jesus said He WAS GOD!

Where does He say that? He never said "I am God." The reason why the first four councils were held by the Church was the ambiguity with which some Christians received His divnity, and because it is not stated so simply.

2,496 posted on 02/10/2006 4:52:31 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; jo kus; HarleyD
Muslims are heretics, not terrorists. Some Muslims are terrorists.

I thought I learned from personal experience that being called a heretic was not the ultimate insult because heretics are, how shall I say, "partial breakers from a commonality"? :) Muslims are not like this. Being compared or equated to the theology of Islam would be the ultimate insult.

FK: "Jesus said He WAS GOD!"

Where does He say that? He never said "I am God." The reason why the first four councils were held by the Church was the ambiguity with which some Christians received His divinity, and because it is not stated so simply.

I had not the slightest idea that it was a matter of controversy that Jesus claims to be God in the Bible. Of course there are tons of examples in the Bible that show that Jesus is God, but here are some examples of where He says it Himself. I cannot wait to hear the interpretations of these verses: :)

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

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Ex. 3:14 "God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Now combo this with the following:

John 8:58-59 : 58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

WHY were they going to stone Him? Because everyone knew, INCLUDING Jesus, that He was claiming to be God. And along the same lines:

John 18: 4-6 : 4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?" 5 "Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

Why would the soldiers ready to grab Him fall to the ground? Jesus claimed to be God with full authority and power.

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Rev. 1:8 : "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

AND:

Rev. 1:17-18 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Now, contrast the following:

Is. 44:6 : "This is what the LORD says— Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

In Revelation, is there a dispute we are talking about Jesus here?

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John 5:17-18 : 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus had to know how they would take it, right?

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John 14:5-10 : 5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

If you see and know Jesus then you see and know the Father. They are in each other because they are one essence.

2,621 posted on 02/14/2006 3:28:30 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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