"If I have given you that impression, then I have been in error, and I apologize. I believe that the process of sanctification is very distinct from salvation. I see the truth of salvation as a single moment in time, from our point of view, with future included events (works). I believe sanctification only begins after salvation is accomplished. Sanctification, in part, teaches us how to love God, and appreciate His love for us more. Sanctification is a lifelong process (after salvation) and brings us closer to God. Salvation, according to me, is what gets us into heaven."
I didn't understand what you were saying. For us Orthodox its quite the other way around. What you call salvation we might say is the first time the Holy Spirit takes up in our souls.
"Does this mean that spiritual gifts are not bestowed until after physical death? (Maybe I am misinterpreting "battle is over"?) Regarding the last sentence, does this mean that man is spiritually dead until theosis? If so, then most people spend their entire lives spiritually dead?"
No, but the state that +Thalassios is speaking of is way up near the top of the Ladder. The death to life comment is a comparison of this life and True Life. Compared to True Life in Christ, our life is like a state of death.
"[+Gregory Palamas :] "Through this life it [the soul] makes the body conjoined to it immortal, so that in due time the body attains the promised resurrection and participates in eternal glory."
Sorry for coming up with such a weird question here, but does this mean that a soul doomed to hell will be without body? (From the context, I'm assuming that a lost soul will not make the body immortal.) In that case, how can there be "weeping and gnashing of teeth"?"
Kosta answered this one as well as I could.
""As long as we are in the hand of God, “no one is able to pluck us out” (John x. 28.), for that hand is strong; but when we fall away from that hand and that help, then are we lost,...
This is another good point that I haven't been able to understand. Isn't it clear in this passage that we are stronger than the hand of God? God's hand is strong, but not strong enough to overcome our desires? To me, interpreting "no one" into "no one except me" renders the whole verse useless. It completely negates the point of the verse."
Why do you think this negates the scripture verse? Is it because you believe that once you have gained salvation the struggle is over? From an Orthodox pov the struggle usually continues through life and since it is we who cut ourselves off from God, not other people, what +John Chrysostomos says seems self-evident.
I was getting ready to type "Yes, I agree", but then something struck me. I thought that Baptism was the "moment" for you all, as the sinner's prayer is for us. Since these occur at completely different times, when does the Spirit indwell?
The death to life comment is a comparison of this life and True Life. Compared to True Life in Christ, our life is like a state of death.
OK, I think I see now, thanks. The focus is toward the end of the race.
[From +John Chrysostomos:] "As long as we are in the hand of God, “no one is able to pluck us out” (John x. 28.), for that hand is strong; but when we fall away from that hand and that help, then are we lost,..."
Why do you think this negates the scripture verse? Is it because you believe that once you have gained salvation the struggle is over? From an Orthodox pov the struggle usually continues through life and since it is we who cut ourselves off from God, not other people, what +John Chrysostomos says seems self-evident.
I think it negates the verse because "no one" does not mean "no one", instead it is interpreted to mean "no one except me". Doesn't this change the entire meaning of the verse? By the plain meaning, God's supreme sovereignty is glorified. When God has something in His hand, no one can change that. In the interpreted meaning, man has power over God to snatch himself out of His hand. God only keeps something in His hand until a man decides to release it himself. That just sounds like a much weaker God to me.
I do not believe that once salvation is attained that the struggle is over. There will be much work to do. The regenerated heart will move us to want to do that work. And, the struggle is not really an issue in salvation, because it is a lock that it will happen. Yes, it needs to happen for salvation to be real, but God promises that it will for the elect.