I was getting ready to type "Yes, I agree", but then something struck me. I thought that Baptism was the "moment" for you all, as the sinner's prayer is for us. Since these occur at completely different times, when does the Spirit indwell?
The death to life comment is a comparison of this life and True Life. Compared to True Life in Christ, our life is like a state of death.
OK, I think I see now, thanks. The focus is toward the end of the race.
[From +John Chrysostomos:] "As long as we are in the hand of God, “no one is able to pluck us out” (John x. 28.), for that hand is strong; but when we fall away from that hand and that help, then are we lost,..."
Why do you think this negates the scripture verse? Is it because you believe that once you have gained salvation the struggle is over? From an Orthodox pov the struggle usually continues through life and since it is we who cut ourselves off from God, not other people, what +John Chrysostomos says seems self-evident.
I think it negates the verse because "no one" does not mean "no one", instead it is interpreted to mean "no one except me". Doesn't this change the entire meaning of the verse? By the plain meaning, God's supreme sovereignty is glorified. When God has something in His hand, no one can change that. In the interpreted meaning, man has power over God to snatch himself out of His hand. God only keeps something in His hand until a man decides to release it himself. That just sounds like a much weaker God to me.
I do not believe that once salvation is attained that the struggle is over. There will be much work to do. The regenerated heart will move us to want to do that work. And, the struggle is not really an issue in salvation, because it is a lock that it will happen. Yes, it needs to happen for salvation to be real, but God promises that it will for the elect.
"In the interpreted meaning, man has power over God to snatch himself out of His hand. God only keeps something in His hand until a man decides to release it himself. That just sounds like a much weaker God to me."
Not at all, FK. It means that God, for His own reasons, respects our decisions. This doesn't mean He's weak, FK. I see where you are coming from but the consensus patrum is quite clear on this. Now Latins and the Orthodox believe the Fathers are right on this one. Clearly Protestants don't.
"I thought that Baptism was the "moment" for you all, as the sinner's prayer is for us. Since these occur at completely different times, when does the Spirit indwell?"
Baptism is part of our "initiation" into The Church. It washes away all sin, assuming there is any. Babies don't have sin, though the Latins speak of Original Sin. We believe that Baptism seals us and as it is our first reception of sacramental grace, by which grace we are able to begin to experience the process of theosis (and without which we likely can't, but, as I have said, we can't say whither the Spirit goes). It may be that for us Baptism is the "regeneration" you speak of, but I confess I don't necessarily understand how you are using the term.