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To: annalex; Kolokotronis; Cronos; jo kus; Forest Keeper
I don't understand where the Communion of Saints fits into this

I thought in the Catholic tradition the Community of Saints represents Church Militant praying for the dead.

I am not sure, but I think the Church settled this matter in the 8th century. The menaing of this Community involved the Siants who are in heaven (i.e. those who have achieved theolsis, or likeness of Christ; that is real saints, not the "holies" who share in faith and sacraments on earth; I think the Protestants refer to themselves as saints or the divines -- Calvinists and lutherans respectively). If you wonder if the souls can pray, the Church certainly says they can pray, but they can't repent. Our time for repentance is on earth. When we die, our souls are immediately subjected ot judgment.

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27)

Once judged, what good is it for us to repent; the judgment is passed.

2,005 posted on 01/25/2006 7:48:51 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
The menaing of this Community involved the Siants who are in heaven

This is how I understand the Communion of Saints, -- the Saints in heaven in union with God, but I do not understand how the model where the souls all without exception await the Final Judgement in a state of relative discomfort, that you described earlier, accomodate the Saints in heaven. Are they also "in an unnatural state"?

2,007 posted on 01/25/2006 8:38:27 PM PST by annalex
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To: kosta50; annalex; Kolokotronis; Cronos; jo kus
The meaning of this Community involved the Saints who are in heaven (i.e. those who have achieved theolsis, or likeness of Christ; that is real saints, not the "holies" who share in faith and sacraments on earth; I think the Protestants refer to themselves as saints or the divines -- Calvinists and lutherans respectively).

Yes, we believe the Biblical meaning of "saint" is any saved person. Such as in this passage:

Rom. 8:26-27 : "26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

From the Catholic or Orthodox view, why would the Spirit need to intercede for a saint? Aren't all saints already purified, and thus avoid purgatory? Also, this passage clearly refers to physically living people. For Catholics, I thought that for anyone to become a recognized saint, he or she had to first be physically dead, and then canonized by the Church.

2,018 posted on 01/26/2006 6:15:46 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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