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To: Cronos
Me: "In your view, does God make up His plan as He goes along?

I think, as an omnipotent deity, God can pretty much do as He pleases. If you want to phrase it as "making up His plan as He goes along", so be it -- He can do ANYTHING.

No argument from me that God CAN do whatever He wants. My question was about what God DOES do. I'll even answer first and say that 'NO', God does not make it up as He goes along, God ordained His plan from the beginning with all knowledge and foreknowledge.

I don't think God "waits" in any sense and I definitely believe that HE is omniscient. He's not dependent in any way, but He chooses to let us choose. He KNOWs what we will choose, but He doesn't make us do these things, He doesn't make us SIN.

This appears to be another perspective debate, which I think is the root of many disagreements on this thread. (No shot at you :) In your view, how does God's overall "plan" fit into all this? Who is in control? Do you say God reacts to our choices and adjusts His plan? That is a vote for some control being in the hands of man. If God already knows what we are going to do, then why does He need to change His plan? What was "wrong" with His first plan so that now, on the occurrence of some human event, His plan needs to be changed?

As to whether God is a "slave" to His own plan, I would say that it depends on how you look at it. My base answer is 'Yes'.

What is your definition of "perfection"? Is it not God? How many other attributes of God do we accept as definitional? Perfect Love, perfect peace, perfect justice, perfect mercy, etc. So, from our perspective, God is "perfect" in all things. Therefore, whatever plan God makes should be what?, ... well ... perfect. From God's perspective, why change anything?

OTOH, from our perspective, it seems that God changes His mind in several stories in the Bible. But is this really the case? If one agrees that God is omniscient, then none of these verses makes sense that God is truly changing His mind. You don't PLAN to change your mind! If God has perfect knowledge, then WHY WOULD GOD NEED TO CHANGE HIS MIND? God is teaching us through scripture.

1,941 posted on 01/24/2006 6:50:00 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
In your view, how does God's overall "plan" fit into all this?

I think we're subverting everything by trying to make God fit into our mould with a "plan" as opposed to God's will.

Who is in control?

God.

Do you say God reacts to our choices and adjusts His plan?

I believe God sees all and knows all and His will is all powerful and He has given us the choice to choose or not, the free will.

That is a vote for some control being in the hands of man.

I don't think man can "surprise" God in any way?

If God already knows what we are going to do, then why does He need to change His plan?

Again, I don't agree with the usage of the word "plan" -- it makes God a slave.

What was "wrong" with His first plan so that now, on the occurrence of some human event, His plan needs to be changed?

Wasn't God's first plan Eden?  Then, live before the ark?  He created all things new

As to whether God is a "slave" to His own plan, I would say that it depends on how you look at it. My base answer is 'Yes'.

I'm sorry, but on that, I completely disagree.

What is your definition of "perfection"? Is it not God? How many other attributes of God do we accept as definitional? Perfect Love, perfect peace, perfect justice, perfect mercy, etc. So, from our perspective, God is "perfect" in all things. Therefore, whatever plan God makes should be what?, ... well ... perfect. From God's perspective, why change anything?

Again, you try to shoehorn God into an idea of ourselves as being slave to a plan

OTOH, from our perspective, it seems that God changes His mind in several stories in the Bible. But is this really the case?

Because God shows He cares -- or is the message of Jonah just showing that God likes to play around with people?

 

1,942 posted on 01/24/2006 6:59:11 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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