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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
I wrote Intercessionary prayers to the saints in heaven. The Scripture does not EXPLICITLY mention it. But Apostolic Tradition DOES. Is it actually refuted in Scriptures? No.

You wrote 1 Tim. 2:5 "5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, ...

This is a common mistake made by many people. I will show why it does not prove that intercessionary prayers are wrong.

First, let's look to the passage in question. I have found that in practically every case, when we look at the context, the so-called verse against Catholic teaching is explained away...

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men, for kings, and [for] all that are in authority that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and integrity. For this [is] good and pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires that all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is only] one God and likewise [only] one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” 1 Tim 2:1-5

Notice the bold letters. In this very paragraph, Paul tells Timothy to INTERCEDE for others. The Greek word is "enteuxis", which means to pray for or plead on the behalf of others. This is exactly what the Church teaches us to do. In the mean time, in verse 5, the word "mediator", which in Greek is "mesites" means something totally different. According to Vines (a Protestant study tool), it is one who mediates between two parties with a view of producing peace. Vines continues "...for the salvation of men necessitated that the Mediator should Himself possess the nature and attributes of Him towards whom He acts, and should likewise participate in the nature of those for whom He acts (sin apart); only by being possessed both of deity and humanity could He comprehend the claims of the one and the needs of the other. (Vines Complete Expository Dictionary, pg400)

Only Jesus is the Mediator as Vines describes the Greek word "mesites". He IS the God-man. No one else is. The Greek word to intercede is totally different, and has the meaning of pleading on the behalf of another.

Paul cannot possibly mean that Chirst is the SOLE intercessor because he doesn't say that in 1 Tim - denying that in 1 Tim 2:1. Second, Jesus cannot be the SOLE intercessor because Paul mentions the Spirit, also, as an intercessor (Rom 8:26). Finally, the Greek words are totally different. Thus, it is a mistake, even from Scripture alone, to say that the Catholic practice of intercessionary prayers to the saints is incorrect or against the Bible. The icing on the cake is the very fact that they DID - as seen by archeological evidence found in the Catacombs of Rome and the writings of early Christians dating before 200 AD.

Regards

1,824 posted on 01/21/2006 12:12:46 PM PST by jo kus
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To: jo kus; kosta50
Paul cannot possibly mean that Chirst is the SOLE intercessor because he doesn't say that in 1 Tim - denying that in 1 Tim 2:1. Second, Jesus cannot be the SOLE intercessor because Paul mentions the Spirit, also, as an intercessor (Rom 8:26). Finally, the Greek words are totally different. Thus, it is a mistake, even from Scripture alone, to say that the Catholic practice of intercessionary prayers to the saints is incorrect or against the Bible. The icing on the cake is the very fact that they DID - as seen by archeological evidence found in the Catacombs of Rome and the writings of early Christians dating before 200 AD.

OK, from what you said I can agree that an intercessor is different from the one mediator. Clearly, we pray for each other all the time, and this is good to God. So in that sense I can agree. Thanks for the explanation.

And, wouldn't you say there is quite a difference between asking a live friend to pray for you and asking a person who's been dead for hundreds of years to pray for you? You have said that the practice was done, but I don't see that as making it right. Indulgences were done too. Does the Bible support it, or is it fully a tradition? As I said in a post to Kosta (written after you wrote this post), why is praying to the dead for intercession necessary?

1,839 posted on 01/21/2006 7:00:17 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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