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To: Forest Keeper
When you ask whether it was God's intent that satan become evil I would first say that satan did not get the evil from God because He does not have it to offer. God allowed it, but had the full authority and power to prevent it. So, in a sense, God intended it because He didn't prevent it, but the evil itself did not originate from God. God created what became evil, first satan, then Adam, then the rest of us.

Ok, that's a step closer to us. We say that God did not ordain or cause sin. Sin is the rejction of God and His ways. You and we also agree that God KNEW about it and COULD have ACTED on it. Perhaps God intended it? I don't know, but I will say that He did not pre-ordain sin and pre-ordain that Satan or we would sin. He did not sit down and say -- I will condemn Satan to heck before he's created.
1,710 posted on 01/17/2006 9:09:48 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: Cronos; Forest Keeper
"...but I will say that He did not pre-ordain sin..."

Nonsense. It states so in the scriptures...

God the Father predestined the death of His Son. Man wickedly carried out the very sin that God predestined. And it doesn't say that God "foreknew" men would kill His Son. Christ laid down His life. It was His choice to the praise of His glory.
1,720 posted on 01/18/2006 4:31:46 AM PST by HarleyD (Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on)
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To: Cronos; HarleyD
You and we also agree that God KNEW about it [man's sin] and COULD have ACTED on it. Perhaps God intended it? I don't know, but I will say that He did not pre-ordain sin and pre-ordain that Satan or we would sin.

Along with Harley's good point and good verse in #1720, I would only add that you have to distinguish between your meanings of "intend" and "pre-ordain". We believe that God's plan was perfect and completely formed from the beginning. We don't believe that God makes adjustments to His plan based on "how things are going", or based on "human decisions and cooperation".

I thought we agreed that God's omniscience transcends time. If so, why would He need to change anything? God has always known about sin, and when and how it would occur throughout time. So, according to us, if God's plan was etched in stone from the beginning, then "sin" was necessarily a part of it. In fact, when you think about it, how much of God's plan is directed toward the defeat of "sin"? Tons, right? We could even go so far as to say that the existence of sin is integral to God's plan.

1,723 posted on 01/18/2006 5:57:57 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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