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To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7
As I have asked several times on this thread, what makes a grace efficacious, God or man's response? Who can say how the two interact. But we do say that neither overpowers the other or is independent of the other.

Thus, to answer your question, I can't say it was "my" wisdom alone that enabled me to make the right choice, because God was certainly involved.

And that my dear jo kus is where we are diametrically opposed. As you know by now I hold that my redemption is totally from God & zero to the lazy eigth power of me.

I think we understand each other.

If you are unfamiliar with the acronym TULIP please ask; it summarizes my theology on the matter of salvation. Oh heck I'll just state it, it summarizes an old Protestant doctrinal dispute:

Total depravity

Unconditional election

Limited atonement

Irresistible grace

Perseverance of the saints

Finally without agreeing with me in the slightest I trust that you can understand why I understand that your involvement with God in your salvation makes you the final arbiter; that applies to the other guy also.

1,679 posted on 01/16/2006 3:08:09 PM PST by Dahlseide (TULIP)
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To: Dahlseide
And that my dear jo kus is where we are diametrically opposed. As you know by now I hold that my redemption is totally from God & zero to the lazy eigth power of me.

If God died for the sake of all men, then why isn't each and every man saved - if man has nothing to do with salvation?

Finally without agreeing with me in the slightest I trust that you can understand why I understand that your involvement with God in your salvation makes you the final arbiter; that applies to the other guy also.

With all due respect, I disagree with you. As a matter of fact, I would say that "perseverance of the saints" is a doctrine where the so-called "saint" is the final arbiter. According to each and every Calvinist, they somehow KNOW that they are one of the elect. As of right now, I don't know, nor do I presume to know that I am of the elect. How does my point of view make me the final arbiter of salvation, while your presumption to be in the Book of Life - and not to be blotted out - is not?

Regards

1,689 posted on 01/17/2006 3:58:26 AM PST by jo kus
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To: Dahlseide

by Total depravity you mean that you believe that all of mankind is irredeemably evil? by Limited atonement do you mean that you believe that the penance one does is of no significance. Please could you clarify? Thanks!


1,709 posted on 01/17/2006 8:52:53 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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