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To: jo kus; annalex
it is equally an error to say that divine mercy is not moved by pleas for mercy [annalex]

After a certain point, we can only speculate [jo]

Jo, read 2 Kings 20:1-6 or, for that matter, look at the word "repent." The Bible is full of references that show that God is moved to divine mercy by our prayers. That is not speculation. It has a lot to do with our intent. Remember, our salvation does not depend on how much we do and what we do, but how Christ-like we are when we do it, how empty we are of pride.

But most importantly, we may not ask for forgiveness and mercy unless we have forgiven those who trespassed against us, unless we have shown mercy. "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy" (Mat 5:7), says the Lord, and "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." (Lk 6:36), always remembering that "judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!" (Ja 2:13)

1,576 posted on 01/15/2006 2:39:45 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Jo, read 2 Kings 20:1-6 or, for that matter, look at the word "repent." The Bible is full of references that show that God is moved to divine mercy by our prayers. That is not speculation. It has a lot to do with our intent. Remember, our salvation does not depend on how much we do and what we do, but how Christ-like we are when we do it, how empty we are of pride.

Of course, you are correct. When I speak of speculation, I am talking about the interaction between our cooperation with God and His graces. You'd think I was becoming Orthodox by saying that we cannot know who God is, but what God is NOT! We can know some things about God, but I know you will agree that on our interaction, we just can merely speculate. That's what I meant! Funny how a Catholic is talking like an Orthodox! Maybe there is hope!

But most importantly, we may not ask for forgiveness and mercy unless we have forgiven those who trespassed against us, unless we have shown mercy.

Exactly. Isn't it Matthew's version of the Lord's Prayer where Christ expounds on this more? Seems that God's forgiveness is conditional on the fact that WE forgive others. Interesting thought for meditation.

Brother in Christ

1,598 posted on 01/15/2006 4:39:24 PM PST by jo kus
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To: kosta50; jo kus; Forest Keeper

I agree with Kosta, -- we have absolute assurance of mercy as well as an absolute assurance of salvation through the sacraments of the Church and commandments of Christian ethics. There is not much we can do with it, because consciousness of this assurance is the sin of presumption, but assurance it is.


1,638 posted on 01/16/2006 2:22:28 AM PST by annalex
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