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To: kosta50
Jo, read 2 Kings 20:1-6 or, for that matter, look at the word "repent." The Bible is full of references that show that God is moved to divine mercy by our prayers. That is not speculation. It has a lot to do with our intent. Remember, our salvation does not depend on how much we do and what we do, but how Christ-like we are when we do it, how empty we are of pride.

Of course, you are correct. When I speak of speculation, I am talking about the interaction between our cooperation with God and His graces. You'd think I was becoming Orthodox by saying that we cannot know who God is, but what God is NOT! We can know some things about God, but I know you will agree that on our interaction, we just can merely speculate. That's what I meant! Funny how a Catholic is talking like an Orthodox! Maybe there is hope!

But most importantly, we may not ask for forgiveness and mercy unless we have forgiven those who trespassed against us, unless we have shown mercy.

Exactly. Isn't it Matthew's version of the Lord's Prayer where Christ expounds on this more? Seems that God's forgiveness is conditional on the fact that WE forgive others. Interesting thought for meditation.

Brother in Christ

1,598 posted on 01/15/2006 4:39:24 PM PST by jo kus
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To: jo kus
You'd think I was becoming Orthodox by saying that we cannot know who God is, but what God is NOT!

We have no monopoly on apophatic knowledge. If our Latin brothers can use it for spiritual food, please do!

I do understand what you are saying now, although I think the west generally seeks to find the "how" if not the "why," whereas the East is simply content to "know" that it is. To an Orthodox Christian, a Mystery is just what the word means -- an unknown! We simply do not speculate. To us the mechanics of "how" God accomplishes things is not important. We say, how can a tool know its maker?

Seems that God's forgiveness is conditional on the fact that WE forgive others

Most definitely. The Lord's Prayer is unambiguous about it (in Greek)The word afhkamen expresses it as a "historical present," as something we witness as it is occuring. Most scholars agree that in English a simple past tense (forgiven) is a better translation of the real meaning of this grammatical form instead of the more common KJV present tense (forgive).

Other NT references lave no doubt that mercy is required on our part in order to receive it from God.

1,606 posted on 01/15/2006 6:10:17 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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