(2) that, according to your theology, we are not to be judged according to our deeds (Mat 16:27), as the Scripture clearly states, but divinely preordained to heaven or hell. Your beliefs hold that, just as no amount of good works glorifying God can benefit your salvation, no amount of evil can condemn you, and send you to hell. In that case, everyone's is God's "elect." Just the roles are opposite!
(3) If God is the author of everything good and evil then repentance, of which the Bible is full, is a meaningless "ritual". Since God already knows how you feel, and since everything you do is done because you are only doing God's will, repentance becomes a nonsense.
(4) If everything was preordained, from the beginning and is preprogrammed until the end, why did Christ die for the unrighteous when the unrighteous are unrighteous by God's hands? In this case God is redeeming us from Himself!
(5) Thus the redemption becomes an oxymoron, because humanity has been prepackaged in an inflexible and rigid, even morbid Reformed choreography of God's Plan (never did find that word in Scripture).
(6) What God set out to do, He has already accomplished. God is not building new worlds. His job is done: because He is here and yesterday and at the end of times all at once. Surely His plan stands finished at the end of times. I am not changing perspectives, but you seem to be confusing His eternal nature with our temporal world.
(7) And if God is involved in our lives I beg to know why (from your Protestant point of view). He preordained what will be and nothing will change (because it's perfect as you say), so God is rendered less than omnipotent by being subject to necessity!
(8) You pray because you don't know, but why not just resign yourself to saying that whatever happens to me is what God decided -- it is merciful and just, for mercy will triumph over judgment (Jam 2:13). If everything has been predetermined, each step and each word we make and utter, why would He be in our lives?
You see, there is a big contradiction in what you are saying: God has preordained everything, yet He intervenes in our lives?
Take that pitiful man, Pat Robertson, for example -- his latest "pearl" is that God is punishing Ariel Sharon for selling Israel (because Israel is His land)! First, Israel means people of God and God never intended it to mean only Hebrews. But, I must wonder, on whose account and by whose will is Ariel Sharon selling Israel that he is being punished when God, according to you and your cohorts, is in full control of Mr. Sharon -- and, by the same "logic" -- Mr. Sharon is doing "God's" work by selling Israel, according to the Reformed theology that is.
I believe that is Augustinian Theology as well. And Pat Robertson is no Calvinist. I can guarantee you that! So your argument begins with a false premise.
The fact is that God is in control, especially when it comes to heads of state. The bible is clear on that subject:
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. (Proverbs 21:1 KJV)
So if Ariel Sharon is selling the Land of Israel, then it is all a part of God's eternal plan. and if Ariel Sharon suffers a stroke, then it is all part of God's eternal plan. God is not surprised nor is God's plan subject to constant revision.
Carry on.
Great post.
(1) that the concept of sin is meaningless in the predestined world of your theology, in which God is the author and the cause of Adam's sin as much as He is of yours and mine.
I have always said that God is not the author of evil because it is not in His nature, but that He allows evil to happen for His own purposes. Sin is very meaningful. I have also said that in a sense God's omissions could be considered "causal" because of His authority (the betrayal of Judas).
I make a distinction between causation and authorship. God was not the source of the evil in Judas because we are clearly told that satan entered into him and prompted him to the betrayal. God could have stopped this, but He didn't (thank God for me!). Therefore, in a sense, God caused the betrayal to happen by not preventing it, as He was the only one who could have, but He was certainly not the cause of the evil itself, satan was.
(2) that, according to your theology, we are not to be judged according to our deeds (Mat 16:27), as the Scripture clearly states, but divinely preordained to heaven or hell. Your beliefs hold that, just as no amount of good works glorifying God can benefit your salvation, no amount of evil can condemn you, and send you to hell. In that case, everyone's is God's "elect." Just the roles are opposite!
I believe that we will all stand before God and give an account for our deeds, and that we will thereby receive our reward IN Heaven, not TO Heaven. (Matt. 16:27)
I agree that good works do not benefit our salvation in terms of earning it, but I would say that good works are a part of a saved person's life. It is in our new nature to do good works, so a saved person will do them. That leads to not everyone being elect, because the unsaved cannot do good works out of a love for God (new nature), which makes those works "count". I know there must be some Catholics who will throw me a bone on this one! :)
As for the evil, I'll just repeat that yes, there is enough evil I could do that would cost me my salvation, but that if my salvation was real, God promised me He wouldn't let that happen because He keeps His own.
(3) If God is the author of everything good and evil then repentance, of which the Bible is full, is a meaningless "ritual". Since God already knows how you feel, and since everything you do is done because you are only doing God's will, repentance becomes a nonsense.
Please see answer to (1). In addition, I do not do only God's will. I do what Paul did:
Rom. 7:15-20 : "15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. "
(4) If everything was preordained, from the beginning and is preprogrammed until the end, why did Christ die for the unrighteous when the unrighteous are unrighteous by God's hands? In this case God is redeeming us from Himself!
Please see answer to (1). Christ died for us because He loves us. He redeems our sin, which is not a part of God.
(5) Thus the redemption becomes an oxymoron, because humanity has been prepackaged in an inflexible and rigid, even morbid Reformed choreography of God's Plan (never did find that word in Scripture).
It all depends on from whose point of view you are considering. From our POV, it is all very exciting because we do not know the future or any of the "prepackaging". Much of what is in truth inflexible and rigid is unknown to us and very much in play.
From God's POV, I have asked myself: "If God already knows everything that's going to happen, then why get out of bed in the morning?" To me, it is one of God's beautiful mysteries. I can't explain it. :)
I'm not sure to which word you are referring to having not found in scripture. For any given verses, there are many words in the Bible (that you use) that may not be in mine, and vice-versa. However, I'd bet that in many cases we would agree as to the meaning of the given verse.
(6) What God set out to do, He has already accomplished. God is not building new worlds. His job is done: because He is here and yesterday and at the end of times all at once. Surely His plan stands finished at the end of times. I am not changing perspectives, but you seem to be confusing His eternal nature with our temporal world.
I did answer you on this, but maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at. I agreed that God completed the part of His plan involving dying on the cross for sins. I meant to say that I think that is only part of God's "whole existence thing" plan. From our POV, there is still the future. I won't quibble that from God's POV everything is already a done deal. I think I was confused that you said it though, because that supports my contention that God's plan does not change. But, as I said, maybe I misunderstood or confused what you were saying with that of other posters. If so, then I am sorry. I'm not sure what you mean by my "confusing His eternal nature with our temporal world".
(7) And if God is involved in our lives I beg to know why (from your Protestant point of view). He preordained what will be and nothing will change (because it's perfect as you say), so God is rendered less than omnipotent by being subject to necessity!
Oh, is this what you meant above? OK. I just meant that God is involved in our lives from our POV. Again, I won't quibble with you on the "how does God transcend time" thing. If you want to say that from God's POV that everything is already a done deal because He simultaneously exists in all time, I'm not really in a position to argue with you from a full knowledge of the actual truth about that.
I honestly think you are splitting hairs by saying that I think God is less than omnipotent because He is constrained and subject to His own plan! I have argued that since God's plan is perfect that it won't need to change from our POV. Because His plan is perfect, it shows His omnipotence.
If I understand you correctly, I get confused by your arguments that on the one hand God's plan can change, but on the other hand God's plan is already done.
(8) You pray because you don't know, but why not just resign yourself to saying that whatever happens to me is what God decided -- it is merciful and just, for mercy will triumph over judgment (Jam 2:13). If everything has been predetermined, each step and each word we make and utter, why would He be in our lives?
You see, there is a big contradiction in what you are saying: God has preordained everything, yet He intervenes in our lives?
I pray because I know God wants me to, and it is very beneficial to me in my life here on earth. I'm fully aware that I'm not going to get everything I pray for, which is partly why I always pray for God's (preordained) will. The other part is what if I accidentally pray for something that would actually harm me. I'd rather have God know that (in advance) and turn me down flat for my own good. :)
As to why He would be in our lives if everything is already predetermined, that goes back to the earlier perspective arguments and my earlier admission to not knowing this mystery of God. I know with all my heart that for me, God intervenes in my life every day. Amen!
Take that pitiful man, Pat Robertson, for example -- his latest "pearl" is that God is punishing Ariel Sharon for selling Israel (because Israel is His land)! ... But, I must wonder, on whose account and by whose will is Ariel Sharon selling Israel that he is being punished when God, according to you and your cohorts, is in full control of Mr. Sharon -- and, by the same "logic" -- Mr. Sharon is doing "God's" work by selling Israel, according to the Reformed theology that is.
WHOA! I don't remember signing up as a defender of Pat Robertson. LOL! I think he gets into almost all of his trouble, not because what he is thinking is completely baseless, but that his political and diplomatic instincts are so poor. I've seen him do it a dozen times on TV. He says something and I answer back "Pat, you know they're going to kill you for that, why did you say it?" Too funny.
But, back to what you were talking about. I would refer back to my causation/authorship distinction. If what Sharon is doing is sin (and I don't know) then God did not author it, but allowed it to happen for His purpose. If what Sharon is doing is good, then God caused it and authored it. Nobody I know is saying that Sharon's stroke is a punishment from God; for my part, I would never be so presumptuous.
I infer from the totality of your paragraph that you think I believe that all that actions are "God's work" because I claim that God is in control of everything. So, if Sharon is selling Israel, then that is God's work. You then seem to imply that this idea is inconsistent with God punishing him for it, since God is the one who really did it. There is no contradiction at all, and I think you are splitting hairs again by trying to show God as authoring "badness" or evil.
God uses bad occurrences to further His plan and glorify Himself. When I commit a certain sin, God might directly punish me. God could have prevented me from committing the sin, but He didn't. So, is it fair for Him to punish me? Absolutely. God punishes me because He loves me, and it was I who chose to sin. I, hopefully, will learn from the punishment. This is God's plan.
Well, even if you think my answers are lousy, you have to give me that I tried! :) God bless.