I would say that when you do works believing that they aid in your salvation they are self serving, the primary goal is self love .
The inner disposition of the person? Do you mean the heart? God tells us the heart is deceitful and who can know it? We could call that self deception. The man in Matthew BELIEVED he had done works for the Lord, that is why he called attention to them. But Christ said they were inequity.
So the question is, if the heart is deceptive, even to the man it is in, and the man believes what he is doing he is doing in the Lords name, he could be wrong, correct? God could say to him "I never knew you"
Everything we do while abiding in Christ is a fruit of the Spirit. Whether it is faith, repentance, or love. I agree with you.
Do the unsaved abide in God? I am asking a salvation question. If a man is not saved, then his works are "filthy rags "not coming from the love that comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit. That would mean to God those good works are not coming from divine love and are inequity to Christ. They would not add a wit to his salvation right?
Perhaps the definitions are resulting in us talking past each other. Good deeds with loving intentions are NECESSARY for salvation. Faith alone doesn't save.
But the unsaved can not do any good works as i have pointed out all their works are sin to God and can add only to their damnation not their salvation. So we have a problem. A man can not be saved with works that God sees only as sin, there must be an inward change , a work of God and the indwelling Holy Spirit to have works that God considers meritorious .
Works cannot save because they do not have proper inner disposition. As long as we abide in Christ, our actions are meritorious.
That is what I would say, only the actions of the saved are acceptable to God. That being the fact they can not be "saving" because one needs to be saved to have God pleasing "works" .
So do works save..NO , something needs precede them to make them meritorious, that something is Faith
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Note Paul places salvation as coming from Faith, and the works only later as being ordained for us to walk in .
Sometime this is difficult dialog, because we use the same terms, but we mean different things
I would agree. I think we can identify the difference between a love-filled action and a self-serving action. We KNOW deep inside why we do the things we do. We must love the Lord with our whole selves for the sake of loving Him, not to earn something.
The inner disposition of the person? Do you mean the heart? God tells us the heart is deceitful and who can know it? We could call that self deception. The man in Matthew BELIEVED he had done works for the Lord, that is why he called attention to them. But Christ said they were inequity.
You must be speaking of the Rich Young Man. "What can I do to earn salvation"!!! Notice Christ says "He loved him". But there was one thing keeping the rich man from entering the Kingdom (having a loving relationship with Christ) - money. Money does not allow us to rely on Christ, but ourselves. Jesus wants us to set Him as our first priority. Christ says we can approach Him with a pure heart, if He abides in us.
So the question is, if the heart is deceptive, even to the man it is in, and the man believes what he is doing he is doing in the Lords name, he could be wrong, correct? God could say to him "I never knew you"
Again, I think we can know deep within us whether we do something for ulterior motives or not. Even the little things, we can offer up to Christ. When my boss tells me to do something I'd rather not, I can cheerfully obey, offering that up for the sake of Christ. Any little thing can be spiritually given for the sake of our Lord. I think the ones who God will say "I never knew you" will be those who saw themselves as religiously righteous, but were doing so to draw attention to themselves or to bring more power upon themselves. Christ criticized the Pharisees inner motives, but not their actions. He never said anything bad about their extra fasting and tithing - except for the fact that they were proud in it. However, one can do these quietly for the sake of our Lord.
Do the unsaved abide in God? I am asking a salvation question. If a man is not saved, then his works are "filthy rags "not coming from the love that comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit. That would mean to God those good works are not coming from divine love and are inequity to Christ. They would not add a wit to his salvation right?
When you write "unsaved", are you talking about those who have not yet completed the "sinner's prayer" or Baptism? Because quite frankly, we don't KNOW who God's elect are. The Church has taught that God is not bound by the sacraments. He can save whom He will. Thus, strictly speaking, Baptism is not an absolute requirement. The Spirit blows where He wills. Thus, a pagan, with the "Law" written on their hearts (see Rom 2) can act as if they had been spiritually circumcised, as opposed to those who have been physically circumcised, but not of the heart. Thus, it is possible that some people who never are baptised can be saved. We just don't know WHO are God's elect.
When we here on earth say person "x"'s works are as worthless rags, we are pre-judging that person, because we really don't know if the Spirit is moving that person outside of Baptism. We judge a person by their fruits. Who you call an "unsaved" person may be more saved than you or I (in God's eyes) because that person is responding to the little graces he has received more than either of us, with all the aids that we have through Scripture reading, the Eucharist, and so forth. God gives us many gifts through the Church, but we can reject them. Recall that Chrsit said that prostitutes and tax collectors are entering the Kingdom first...Thus, we should be careful on whom we exclude from the Kingdom!
But the unsaved can not do any good works as i have pointed out all their works are sin to God and can add only to their damnation not their salvation. So we have a problem. A man can not be saved with works that God sees only as sin, there must be an inward change , a work of God and the indwelling Holy Spirit to have works that God considers meritorious .
That's true. Our works before Baptism cannot earn us heaven. Those works are as "dirty rags". As before, there must be an inward change as a result of Christ's abiding presence. Only Spirit-filled works, for the Christian, have any meaning come the day of judgment.
That is what I would say, only the actions of the saved are acceptable to God. That being the fact they can not be "saving" because one needs to be saved to have God pleasing "works" .
Of course. But we don't know in the end who will be saved for heaven until we are standing before His Throne.
So do works save..NO , something needs precede them to make them meritorious, that something is Faith
I agree. We cannot be saved by works alone. We must possess faith in God and walk in that faith through loving deeds. IT is through "faith working in love" that means anything (Gal 5:6)
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Note Paul places salvation as coming from Faith, and the works only later as being ordained for us to walk in .
Faith comes first. But that doesn't mean that we will love. We must do both. If we don't let our faith take action by love, our faith is worthless (1 Cor 13:2). I keep bringing that verse up because I think it is important to see that faith, even ALL faith, doesn't necessarily lead to love. We must have BOTH for salvation to be effective within us.
Sometime this is difficult dialog, because we use the same terms, but we mean different things
You said it! The word "works" throws people into a fits!
Regards