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To: Forest Keeper; Cronos; annalex; jo kus; Kolokotronis
If you believe that God actually changed His mind then you must also believe that when God called out to Adam in the Garden: "Where are you?", it was because God did not know

Yes I do believe that God does what is proper and what is best for us in real time. We are not the nails He uses for his Plan, but His children.

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that the verses in 2 Kings 20 show that God adjusts His plan as He sees fit. And you are deliberately denying that the Bible is full of examples where God changes His mind as He sees fit:

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart" (Gen 6:6)

"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people" (Ex 32:14)

"Then Hezekiah repented of the pride of his heart, as did the people of Jerusalem; therefore the LORD's wrath did not come upon them during the days of Hezekiah." (2 Chron 32:6)

"Should God then reward you on your terms, when you refuse to repent? You must decide, not I; so tell me what you know." (Jon 32:33)

"In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it" (Isa 30:15)

"The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins," declares the LORD" (Isa 59:20)

"and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned" (Jer 18:8)

The Bible full of references to repentance being associated with God changing the course of our destination.

God's plan will be accomplished according to His will. There is nothing to suggest that God cannot or does not change His mind in the course of our salvation or damnation. The Protestant notion of God being a captive of His own Plan is nonsense.

God foresees an infinite number of possibilities and He can pick any at any time relative to us. They all lead to the conclusion of His work, on His terms. But that doesn't mean that we are pre-destined to be saved or to perish so that His plan may come to pass, or that our free will somehow affects the outcome of His plan, as Protestant pre-destination suggests.

1,141 posted on 01/12/2006 8:51:18 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; Cronos; annalex; jo kus; Kolokotronis
The Protestant notion of God being a captive of His own Plan is nonsense.

"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

1,143 posted on 01/12/2006 9:03:01 AM PST by HarleyD ("No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44)
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To: kosta50
You are deliberately ignoring the fact that the verses in 2 Kings 20 show that God adjusts His plan as He sees fit. And you are deliberately denying that the Bible is full of examples where God changes His mind as He sees fit:

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart" (Gen 6:6)

"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people" (Ex 32:14)

These and the rest of your examples seem to focus on the idea of repentance. My only knowledge of repentance is in accordance with sin. Since I doubt that you are trying to argue that God needs to repent of sin, I am confused to your point. From the above two examples, in my NIV the word used is "grieved" instead of "repented" in the first example, and the word in my version in Exodus is "relented" (to be sorry), not "repented". In either case, I do not see reasonable evidence that God is wishy-washy or weak. In my personal view, I see God carrying out His plan in perfection, which includes teaching us through these stories. God appears to be weak or at fault, but the truth is that He is not and we are being given an educational, spiritual tool. We obviously learn something by every action God takes.

The Protestant notion of God being a captive of His own Plan is nonsense.

Kosta, as a member of the other side, I must confess that I learn more from you about my own beliefs than from any other poster. This is also a new one to me. On behalf of everyone on my side, I would just like to apologize for not ascribing the human frailties of indecision, personal weakness, and utter dependence on other people to accomplish a goal, to God. (If I may be as presumptuous as you, what I stated seems to fit your model of God rather well.)

1,324 posted on 01/13/2006 6:06:56 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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