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To: HarleyD

You receive faith when you believe, neither before nor after. You receive it when you receive it. How hard is that to understand? Faith is believing. To believe is to have faith. It's a gift. You have the gift when you receive the gift. If you refuse the gift you don't have the gift. You don't have the gift unless and until you receive it.

You yourself used the language of "receive" in your silly question. I didn't answer your question not because I cannot but because I hoped you'd realize that you answered your question when you asked it and you answered it according to my position, not yours. You stated in your question that we receive faith and asked whether belief occurs before or after the reception. You believe in reception. If reception cannot be refused then there is no reception, only one-sided imposition.

If someone shoves a burning torch into my clenched fist I am not receiving it, I am being forced to hold it.

Your problem is that you don't stop to think about what certain words mean and imply and how they relate to other words. You have a procrustean bed of assumptions and you force words into your system even though the words themselves refute your claims.

I don't expect you to understand it. But since you tauntingly begged me to answer your question, here's your answer. It was already present in the question. For someone so proud of his logic, I would have thought you would have noticed.

Now why don't you just ignore the fact that I've just cleaned your clock logically and silently raise a completely unrelated and irrelevant topic like you always do.


1,134 posted on 01/12/2006 8:15:00 AM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis
You receive faith when you believe, neither before nor after. You receive it when you receive it….Your problem is that you don't stop to think about what certain words mean and imply and how they relate to other words.

Faith is belief.
1,146 posted on 01/12/2006 9:13:50 AM PST by HarleyD ("No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44)
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis; HarleyD
If someone shoves a burning torch into my clenched fist I am not receiving it, I am being forced to hold it.

Your problem is that you don't stop to think about what certain words mean and imply and how they relate to other words. You have a procrustean bed of assumptions and you force words into your system even though the words themselves refute your claims.

Well aren't you an acerbic fellow? For someone who places such import on the meaning of words, I am surprised that you have completely blown it yet again. In your torch example, the answer is that of course you HAVE received it. You may not have received it willingly, but you nonetheless did, in fact, receive it. The proof is that your hand is on fire. (You might want to put some ice on that.) The adverb modifies, but does not negate the verb. To "receive" has nothing necessarily to do with intent or perception.

It appears that you might benefit from giving some thought as to what words mean. You may also want to reconsider which of you has the "procrustean bed of assumptions". Remember, you are the attacker, you are the one who shows contempt for other views.

1,311 posted on 01/13/2006 3:09:23 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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