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To: kosta50; Cronos; annalex; jo kus
Judas could not have repented by killing himself! He committed self-murder. Not only did he betray God, but He also broke His Commandment. That was his ultimate damnation. God didn't make him do that.

I agree that repentance is not accomplished via suicide. LOL! Whether Judas was compelled by God goes back to my point that God must have caught a nice break to accomplish His plan. I think you're saying that God foreknew it and worked His divine plan around it. I would say that God both foreknew it and caused it in accordance with His divine plan.

It is a difficult and life-defining moment to repent of something. Unfortunately, people take it very lightly -- it's a lot more than saying "I'm sorry."

On this we certainly agree!

My point is this: if everything is set in stone, and everything has been predetermined by His foreknowledge (Protestant error), then we are on a set of tracks that allow no deviation and nothing will change what destination we arrive at.

Except for the error part :), I would say that you correctly lay out our position from God's point of view. Of course from our human point of view it is much different. We feel like we have free will because we make our choices and we don't know what even we will do next. This "freedom" makes us feel powerful and in control of our lives. We Protestants believe that God is in control of our lives, as we are His slaves to righteousness.

Protestants believe that God actually puts us either on the train destined to hell or to paradise! You don't see anything wrong with that teaching? I wish you would.

We certainly wouldn't put it like that. We would say that all of us deserve to spend eternity outside the presence of God. Pure justice determines this. It is not a matter of what we think is fair, it is a matter of God's demonstrated justice. But all is not lost of course. Via His love and mercy, He decided that some would be saved, though none deserve it. For this we should give glory and honor to God that the elect are saved.

1,125 posted on 01/12/2006 4:29:09 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Cronos; annalex; jo kus
We Protestants believe that God is in control of our lives, as we are His slaves to righteousness

Not "we" according to you, but only the "elect." In your religion, God does not love all people. He loves only some, just like humans do. Of course, since we can't imagine loving everyone as ourselves, you believe God can't either. If that is not humanizing God, I don't know what else is!

We certainly wouldn't put it like that. We would say that all of us deserve to spend eternity outside the presence of God

You are beating around the bush. Let's face it: biblical references that show that God wants to save all simply don't fit your idea of God, so you ignore them.

I said that God gave everyone a ticket and the instructions on which train will take them where -- salvation or damnation. If he died for all of us, He must have given all of us a ticket. But He doe snot decide on which train we will jump. WE do.

The Protestant belief is an error because it assumes that our decisions whether to cooperate with God's grace or not somehow threaten the accomplishment of God's plan, as well as the erroneous belief that God is unable to change His own Plan as He sees fit if he gives us free will. The free will is our ticket, a gift from God; it affects us, not God.

1,145 posted on 01/12/2006 9:10:04 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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