[Dionysiusdecordealcis]

You know, Harley, this is not too bright. Whether a man sits down and considers his choice or immediately goes out and sells everything and buys the field makes zero difference as far as refusing/accepting is concerned. Either way he chooses or refuses to act. It's just that in the first scenario, his choice takes longer. Can you really not see how irrelevant your response was?

And the passages from Numbers and Genesis are equally irrelevant. You say that God didn't ask whether the Israelites wanted Levites. Right. He offered them the Levites. But that has nothing to do with the point of my post or with your original claim that we can't refuse God. Your passages from Numbers and Genesis address the question of whether God's offering of a gift is dependent on our acceptance. But I never said it was. I said that a gift only becomes a gift in the full sense of "gift" if it is accepted. Before it is accepted it is an offered gift, when it is accepted it is an accepted gift, when it is refused it is a refused gift.

If you had not led us on this merry little wild goose chase, you might recall that the original point to which I responded was that you claimed that the only reason some men do not have faith is that God did not offer faith to them. You trumpeted how watertight your logic was here.

And I responded that no, there's another possible reason: God offered it and they refused it. Then I pointed out that a gift that cannot be refused is no gift but an imposition.

You then started with your irrelevancies: people don't refuse God's gift but never know the gift.

Your original statement was flat-out absurd but you proudly proclaimed its logic. When I pointed out its logical fallacy you evade and launch irrelevancies.

Only you cannot see how foolish your original "logical" claim was.

I offered you the gift of knowledge about your own foolishness and you blindly reject it. You are right, some people just don't know when they've been offered a gift and thereby they refuse the gift, which was my original point. You refuse the gift because you refuse to think.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Then I pointed out that a gift that cannot be refused is no gift but an imposition.

LOL. Please, God, please, impose Yourself on me. Every moment of every day of my life. (And while You're at it, please impose Yourself on my husband and kids, too.)

May they know it as their greatest blessing.

[P-Marlowe]

You refuse the gift because you refuse to think.

So salvation comes to those who are smart?

If you are smart, then you will accept the gift of God's grace?

If so, is not our intelligence a gift from God?

If not, then why did you use that as an analogy?

[HarleyD]

I know everything is irrelevant; the woman at the well, the pearl of great price, the man who finds a great treasure, God's gift to the Aaron and Leah. It's all irrelevant.

I said that a gift only becomes a gift in the full sense of "gift" if it is accepted.

And I stated that was nonsense in the context you are putting this in. In the story of the pearl of great value the context is that someone is offered something they will never refuse. Man who fully understand the valuable treasure laid before them will never refuse the gift. That is what the story is about. Our Lord Jesus stated to the woman at the well that if she knew the gift she would desire the gift. If someone offers you $50 billion dollars are you going to say, "I'll get back to you."

Since you feel that accepting Christ is a gift you can refuse I'm still waiting for your response to my question: "When do you believe; before or after the gift of faith?"

1)Faith is a gift of God.

2)Not all men have faith (to choose God-Dion)

2a) Some men have faith (see #1)

3)Therefore God doesn't give faith to all men.

I'll still stick by my logic. I'm not looking for the water wings yet.