Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Dionysiusdecordealcis; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe
Then I pointed out that a gift that cannot be refused is no gift but an imposition.

LOL. Please, God, please, impose Yourself on me. Every moment of every day of my life. (And while You're at it, please impose Yourself on my husband and kids, too.)

May they know it as their greatest blessing.

1,054 posted on 01/11/2006 4:22:28 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (an ambassador in bonds)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1051 | View Replies ]


To: Dr. Eckleburg
Totally irrelevant. You clearly want God to do something to you. That's not an imposition but a statement that you accept God's gift.

An imposition is by definition forcing something on an unwilling person. If you are willing, if you willingly ask God to "impose" on you, then he would not be able to impose. What you wrote is self-refuting.

Rape is rape because the victim does not consent, does not want, does not accept what the person does to her. If she were to ask her rapist to rape her it would not be rape.

Does the language offend you?

Change "imposition" to "harrass"--someone harrasses me, annoys me by trying to sell me a life insurance policy I don't want evem to be "sold"--don't want to hear about. By definition what he does to harrass me is unwanted and I am unwiling and unaccepting of what he does to me. But if I were to say, please harrass me by trying to sell me the life insurance policy, then he ceases to harrass me because I now want him to do what he is doing. Whether the life insurance policy is a good thing or a bad thing is irrelevant. If I don't want him to offer me a good thing he is to my eyes, imposing (I may be foolish to consider him imposing on me but if I don't want his act, it is, to me, an imposition).

So, one cannot beg someone to impose on her. Your statement presupposes that you already belief God's gift to be a gift and you want the gift and you already are ready to accept the gift. It is truly then a gift, both in your eyes and God's eyes. The one thing it is not is an imposition.

Nice try but you show that you don't understand the plain meaning of imposition if you think that you can beg someone to impose on you. You think that what God wants to do to you is good so you beg him to do it. Fine. But that's not an imposition, that's your accepting of his gift to you.

If you were to refuse God's gift and God nonetheless forced it on you it would cease to be a gift and become an imposition. And your refusal of it would make the difference. And someone who forces something, even if it a good thing, is imposing, is forcing against the person's will. Somtimes parents have to impose on their children for the children's own good. And there may be times that God imposes on us for our own good (punishes us when we'd rather not be punished--if God punishes and we recognize that we need the punishment then we are accepting the punishment and God is not imposing on us against our will).

But for the gift of salvation truly to be a gift, it cannot be imposed against our will. That's the self-refuting core of your whole impossible system: you claim that God's gift to us cannot be refused. If it truly cannot be refused it ceases to be a gift. You are free to believe that God imposes his salvation on us against our will but you cannot call it a gift.

And when you set out to illustrate how glad you are that God imposes salvation on you against your will in fact what you stated was that you are willing that God "impose"--so, in fact, you are not willing that God impose; you are willing (exercising your free will as you beg God).

So my original point stands: a gift that cannot be refused is no gift but an imposition. And claiming that you want to be imposed on only shows that you don't understand what either gift or imposition means.

But I don't expect you to understand. You will insist that you wish God would impose himself on you against your will.

1,066 posted on 01/11/2006 5:03:05 PM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1054 | View Replies ]

To: Dr. Eckleburg; Dionysiusdecordealcis

I do not agree.

I want free will so that I can play on the freeway - it is so exhilarating to dodge cars.

Eternity in hell does not sound all that bad anyhow incase my free will gets it wrong.

I do not want to be a robot either; well maybe R2D2 would be OK.

Thank you Triune-God that all I have said above is not true. Thank you for including me in the church, the body of Christ, from before the foundation of the world.


1,101 posted on 01/11/2006 7:18:16 PM PST by Dahlseide (TULIP)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1054 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson