Luther and Erasmus: The Controversy Concerning the Bondage of the Will

Protestant Reformed Theological Journal ^ | April 1999 | Garrett J. Eriks

[ItsOurTimeNow]

[P-Marlowe]

The whole Protestant idea of sola scriptura emphasizes personal interpretation as the ultimate avenue to the correct interpretation of the Scripture.

Actually the idea behind sola scriptura is simply that the word of God is contained within the scriptures and that the scriptures are superior to any man's interpretation of them. Where a tradition is in clear conflict with the revealed word of God, the tradition must be rejected.

Is that not the ultimate in arrogance and pride and self-love?

The ultimate in arrogance and pride and self love is in believing that your own efforts must be added to the sacrifice of Christ in order to secure your salvation; that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient and that it is only through your own efforts that you secure your own salvation.

[blue-duncan]

"Then why are there so many denominations and disagreements as to what is Truth? The whole Protestant idea of sola scriptura emphasizes personal interpretation as the ultimate avenue to the correct interpretation of the Scripture. Is that not the ultimate in arrogance and pride and self-love?"

No, Peter, the ex fisherman, calls it the priesthood of all believers.

1Pe 2:1 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious. To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious, for you, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

The problem with all of us is often times we don't desire the sincere milk of the Word. We want a substitute, a blended word, a homogenized word, a sweetened word, someone else to prepare it for us, someone else to have tasted it for us and feed it to us so that we don't have to confront it or be confronted by it, face to face, naked and open, unmediated, and responsible. We want to be able to say "he said that" or "they said that" rather than submit to the sincere milk of the Word and say "Thus sayeth the Lord" and humbly submit to it and be changed by it.

[jo kus]

Actually the idea behind sola scriptura is simply that the word of God is contained within the scriptures and that the scriptures are superior to any man's interpretation of them. Where a tradition is in clear conflict with the revealed word of God, the tradition must be rejected.

Well, since you bring this up, I thought I'd comment, because it seems quite obvious to me and a number of people find Sola Scriptura self-refuting.

The Scriptures in of themselves are subject to interpretation. EVERY WORD! Thus, how can a book provide ultimate authority for Christians - especially considering that it is chronologically and theologically preceded by the Church? How can we say the Scripture is the ultimate authority for us, then, if the entire book is subject to interpretation? Interpretation makes the book meaningful!

The ultimate in arrogance and pride and self love is in believing that your own efforts must be added to the sacrifice of Christ in order to secure your salvation;

When you find someone who believes that, let me know, so we can both address that person...

Regards

[kosta50]

It appears to me that you do not believe that God is either omnipotent or omniscient

I will end on this note: the Apostolic Church believes, and has always believed that God is omnipotent and omniscient. And that man was endowed with free will.

God, in his absolute power and sovereignty and wisdom and knowledge, foresees our free choices, but does not make the choice for us. We do not "surprise" God. Our free choice does not change or interfere with God's plan, or thwart God's will, or limit His power, or threaten His plan. He has foreseen and incorporated our choices into His plan.

He intended us to be free moral beings, in His likeness and in His image. Only beasts move by necessity. Human beings choose. Sin is made possible only by choice. If we have no choice, we are innocent. If we are innocent, our fall is an unjust punishment. Our repentence and our redemption become oxymorons.

All the best to all of you.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"There is nothing that we have that we have not been given by God."

Amen. Scripture points this out over and over.

And once that realization takes hold, life is much clearer, surer, energetic and confident. Our lives becomes solidly anchored by a confidence which Christ wants us to have because it is a confidence in Him.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

We are saved by grace we choose.

Can you point to the Scriptural passages that assert this?

[AlbionGirl]

The problem with all of us is often times we don't desire the sincere milk of the Word. We want a substitute, a blended word, a homogenized word, a sweetened word, someone else to prepare it for us, someone else to have tasted it for us and feed it to us so that we don't have to confront it or be confronted by it, face to face, naked and open, unmediated, and responsible. We want to be able to say "he said that" or "they said that" rather than submit to the sincere milk of the Word and say "Thus sayeth the Lord" and humbly submit to it and be changed by it.

It's as if I were looking in a mirror. Very well put.

[P-Marlowe]

He has foreseen and incorporated our choices into His plan.

If they are incorporated into his plan, then he has ordained everything that occurs. IOW your sins are as much a part of God's plan as your salvation. One man's salvation is part of God's plan and another man's damnation is equally a part of God's plan. I suspect you recoil at that fact.

Is God passive in all this? Does he hold our will inviolate? Did you make yourself willing to come to Christ, or did God by his mercy and grace make you willing? If He made you willing then you cannot claim it was YOUR free will that brought you to Christ, but God's will.

[blue-duncan]

Did you ever print something and then have the Holy Spirit say "well, how about you"? I hate it when He does that.

[xzins]

Is God passive in all this? Does he hold our will inviolate? Did you make yourself willing to come to Christ, or did God by his mercy and grace make you willing? If He made you willing then you cannot claim it was YOUR free will that brought you to Christ, but God's will.

Those doggone calvinists in the tradition of arminius are absolutely on target! :>)

{!}

[jo kus]

We are saved by grace we choose.

Can you point to the Scriptural passages that assert this?

How about:

We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. For He says: "In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you." Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 6:1-2)

Regards

[jo kus]

"There is nothing that we have that we have not been given by God."

Just because God has given us everything doesn't mean we have no responsibility to do His will. Your so-called "confidence" leads to presumption, and we know where presumption leads:

"Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." (1 Cor 10:12)

Regards

[P-Marlowe]

Those doggone calvinists in the tradition of arminius are absolutely on target! :>)

Feet firmly planted on the fence. :-)

{!}

[blue-duncan]

"Feet firmly planted on the fence. :-)"

You mean firmly planted on Ockham's Razor.

"Ockham's Razor is the principle proposed by William of Ockham in the fourteenth century: ``Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate'', which translates as ``entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily''.

In many cases this is interpreted as ``keep it simple'',"

You have a knack for keeping our positions in both camps nuanced so noone knows where we stand.

[P-Marlowe]

PM: "Feet firmly planted on the fence. :-)"BR> BD: You mean firmly planted on Ockham's Razor.

Ouch. When you put it that way it sounds painful.

In many cases this is interpreted as ``keep it simple'',"

You mean the KISS principle? Keep It Simple, Stupid.

You have a knack for keeping our positions in both camps nuanced so noone knows where we stand.

We stand on the fence.

[AlbionGirl]

Not only when I've written something, but also when I've said something and when I'm just plain thinking. At first it stings a little, 'cause I realize that I think I'm actually better or farther along in my journey than I am, but then it's comforting, because I have this sense that this is my shield and protection.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Scripture is filled with exhortations to righteousness. The Corinthians were no exception. The Scripture you provided simply reiterates what Christ said when he encouraged us to "be of good cheer." We are human beings; we falter, we stumble, we worry. But Christ reminds us that He has overcome the world, and thus we are to remain confident in His redemption of us. As the Holy Spirit works sanctification is us, our fears and failures lessen.

Scripture is clear that grace alone saves.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:8-10

A grace that can be denied is no grace; it's merely friendly persuasion.

[jo kus]

Scripture is filled with exhortations to righteousness.

What's the point if nothing I do matters?

Scripture is clear that grace alone saves.

I agree.

A grace that can be denied is no grace; it's merely friendly persuasion.

A grace is a gift. Like any gift, it can be refused or rejected. If it cannot be rejected, it is not a gift. Paul makes that clear in 2 Cor 6:1.

If I may help. Catholics don't believe that we earn our way to salvation. Our cooperation with God's graces do not earn us anything. Yet, the Scriptures speak of rewards that God will grant us. He has commanded us to follow His teachings (which we cannot rightly do without His graces). He doesn't OWE us anything. Yet, because He is righteous, we have confidence that He WILL reward those who persevere. Again, we cannot do any of this alone. Thus, we are with Paul when he says "we cannot boast". Nothing I give to God is mine ALONE. It is my internal disposition of love, moved by God, that makes a particular action pleasing to God. God is pleased to "crown the gifts that He has given".

Thus, nothing I do ALONE is meaningful towards salvation. Remember, Christ can and does abide in us. He is not just visiting, but sanctifying us, working to convert us. An action in cooperation and moved by God, done in faith and love IS worthy of God's pleasing eye. Being that He is righteous, He will reward our puny response.

Regards

[zeeba neighba]

His is lacking, as is yours: Paul says that we have the mind of Christ, something you appear to either not know, or to disagree with..