Drawing the Line for Mormons: A Closer Look at the LDS Church

Catholic Exchange ^ | October 17, 2005 | Mary Kochan

[NYer]

Mormons want you to believe that they are "Christians" and that their church, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints," is just another Christian denomination. Mormons themselves believe that they are Christians and that their church is the only true church. There is even a move among Mormons to shorten the name of their church to simply "The Church of Jesus Christ."

In This Article...
America's Lost Tribe
Jesus: Brother of Lucifer?
When Talking to a Mormon

America's Lost Tribe

Their founder, Joseph Smith, claimed to have been told in a vision regarding the Christian churches that God "forbade me to join with any of them" and "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight." It is hence Mormons (not Christians) who established, from the beginning of their group, an antagonistic relationship with those Christian groups already in existence. In recent years Mormons have sought to downplay this antagonism, and that testimony of Joseph Smith has received a new whitewashing in the current Newsweek cover story "The Mormon Odyssey" which relates the story like this: "God and Jesus appeared and delivered a startling message: he shouldn't join any of the churches of the world, for they had long ago fallen away from Christ's true Gospel."

In one sense clearly, Mormons are Christian. If you were going to categorize Mormons according to world-religion criteria, you would have to say they are Christians. World religions are the major belief systems found around the world that frame a tradition of enough cultural richness to support a civilization. The major world religions are Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Confucianism and Islam. Clearly Mormonism fits into the broad "Christian" category. And so would many other groups whose relationship with the wider Christian world is antagonistic: Jehovah's Witnesses, Branch Davidians, Oneness Pentecostals, etc.

It may be that in the not-too-distant future, we will have to categorize Mormonism as a separate world religion. It is the fifth-largest religious group now in the US, having just passed the Lutherans, and the LDS are experiencing rapid expansion in other countries. In many ways its development parallels that of Islam. Both religions were founded by prophets who claimed to have been visited by an angel. They borrow heavily from Judaism and Christianity, yet reject their central tenets. Both rely upon strange revisions of history. The Koran identifies Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Miriam the sister of Moses, who lived over fourteen centuries earlier. The Book of Mormon makes numerous claims regarding the peoples of the Americas (including the idea that the American Indians descended from a lost tribe of ancient Israelites) that have been refuted by history, archeology and anthropology. Both Islam and Mormonism claim that where their sacred writings contradict the Bible, the Christian and Jewish scriptures have been corrupted.

It might be argued that Mormons have the right to say that they are "Christians" and no one should deny what they say about themselves. It is possible, however, for us to respect their right to call themselves whatever they wish without feeling compelled to validate that claim ourselves. This is complicated by the fact that to many Catholics, Mormonism seems no more strange than the Baptist faith, or that of any other Protestant denomination. In part this is because Mormons themselves generally use the language and terminology common to (especially Protestant) Christians. In their initial approach to you, they will do all they can to hide or gloss over the distinctive beliefs of their church. Statements of Mormon belief sound so much like statements of the Christian faith that many Catholics and Protestants are quite willing to recognize Mormons as "Christians," not merely in the world-religion sense, but in the sense in which we Catholics recognize Protestant Christians as our "separated brethren." This is a serious error with two major consequences.

First, Christians (including Catholics) are misled into the Mormon church where they are indoctrinated in a religion which rejects the central doctrines of the Christian faith, resulting in them bringing their children up as non-Christians. Second, Christians embrace Mormons as fellow Christians instead of evangelizing them.

In order to protect Christians from this deception and to help Mormons learn the truth, we must understand how Mormon doctrine differs from the historic Christian faith that we share with Protestants. To do this, we will examine first what Mormons say, then how they define the terms they are using and how that differs from the Christian faith. Finally we provide a biblical, Christian response and suggestions for how to discuss these things with a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The Central Question: Who is God?

What Mormons will say they believe about God:

1. We believe in God the Father who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
   
2. We worship God the Father and pray to him in Jesus's name.
   
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why the Mormon God the Father is not the Christian God the Father:

1. "God the Father" to a Mormon is not God the Father, first Person of the Holy Trinity, Whom Christians confess. He is one of many gods.
   
2. The Mormon worships God the Father because He is the god of this planet, but other planets have other gods equal to or even greater than God the Father.
   
3. The Mormon "God the Father" had a father and was once a man on a planet who worshipped his own Father God. He was subsequently exalted to godhood. He has a physical, human body.
   
4. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he too will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet.
   
5. The Mormons have a saying: "What man is, God once was; what God is, man will become." This is polytheism.

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made the heavens and the earth; there is no other God; there never has been any other God, nor will there ever be another. (Gn 1:1; Is 43;10; 44:6, 8, 24)
2. God the Father was never a man.
3. You will never be God.
4. True Christianity, like Judaism, is monotheistic. As our creed states "We believe in one God."

Jesus: Brother of Lucifer?

Why the Mormon Jesus is not the Christian Jesus:

1. The Mormon Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer (Satan). They were both born in heaven by God the Father's union with one of his many spirit wives.
2. According to Mormon teaching, when it was time for Jesus to come down to earth, God the Father sent down one of his spirit wives from heaven to be born as a woman, Mary. Then he came down and had physical, marital relations with her in order for her to give birth to a human body inhabited by Jesus coming from heaven. This is a denial of the Virgin Birth.

Christian answer:

1. Since God the Father does not have a physical human body, He did not impregnate Mary by a physical union (2 Chr 6:18; Jn 4:24).
   
2. Jesus became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary (Mt 1:23; Lk 2:30-35).
3. God the Father does not have a wife or wives in heaven.
   
4. Jesus is the eternally-begotten Son of God, one in being with the Father (Jn 1:1-18).
   
5. He is not the older brother of Lucifer.
6. He is the older brother, as well as Lord and God, of those born again by water and Spirit, God's adopted children (Jn 3:3-17; Rom 8:14-17, 29).

Why the Mormon doctrine of man is not the Christian doctrine of man:

1. According to Mormonism, all human beings existed as spirit children of God and his wife in heaven before coming to earth.
   
2. They grow to spirit "adulthood" serving God (even fighting in heavenly battles), and are then sent to earth to be babies of human parents.
   
3. The earthly life is their opportunity to become gods themselves, like their heavenly Father, by "obeying the laws of the Gospel" just as the god of this planet once did.

Christian answer:

1. There is no biblical support for the idea that human beings were spirit children of God in heaven before coming to earth.
   
2. Jesus was unique in being a human being with a pre-human existence (Jn 1:18; 3:13, 31; 8:23, 58).
   
3. Jesus took on human nature at the Incarnation. God became man — not the other way around. His human nature was glorified at His Resurrection.
   
4. We will be like God in that we will have the same kind of glorified human nature which Jesus possesses, not in becoming gods and ruling planets ourselves (1 Jn 3:3; Rom 8:22, Phil 3:20-21).
   
5. While heaven is the presence of God with unfettered communion, the distinction between God and creatures remains (Rv 5:13, 14).

What is Salvation?

What Mormons will say they believe about salvation:

1. All are redeemed by the Savior's self-sacrifice, from the consequences of the fall.
   
2. Immortality comes as a free gift, by the grace of God alone, without works.
   
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why Mormon salvation is not Christian salvation:

1. According to Mormonism, everyone and everything — all of creation — has been redeemed and therefore "saved."
   
2. This salvation gains, for all human beings, a physical resurrection only — not eternal life. Eternal life is not "salvation"; it is "exaltation."
   
3. If you ask a Mormon if he is saved (per Evangelical parlance), he will answer yes.
4. If you ask him if he believes you are saved, he will answer yes. This confuses Christians who do not understand that being "saved" and gaining "eternal life" are not the same thing in Mormon thinking.
   
5. It is further confused by the Mormon distinction between "immortality" (salvation to physical resurrection) and "eternal life" (exaltation to godhood).
6. The Mormons have a saying: "Salvation without exaltation is damnation."
7. Therefore, a Mormon can, with a straight face, tell you he believes you are "saved," while he also believes you are damned.

Christian answer:

1. We define salvation according to what we are saved from. We are saved from sin and from the wages of sin — death.
   
2. To be saved from sin is to be justified and sanctified. To be saved from death is to receive eternal life (Rom 6:22, 23).
   
3. Being saved, justified, sanctified and given eternal life by the grace of God are all things which are interconnected in the Scriptures. There is no biblical basis for separating them (Rom 5).
   
4. Seeking exaltation is contrary to the spirit of Christ. We are rather to humble ourselves, recognize our sinfulness and call upon the Lord for mercy and forgiveness (Js 4:6-10).

Why the Mormon hope is not the Christian hope:

1. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet. This is "exaltation," and depends upon the Mormon "Plan of Eternal Progression."
2. The hope of Mormon females depends upon their being married, in a temple ceremony, to a Mormon male who achieves exaltation.
3. Mormon women married to non-Mormons ("Gentiles") can arrange for a "temple sealing" (marriage by proxy) to a Mormon male after their death. This is to assure that in eternity they are considered to have been married to and produced their children from a Mormon husband so that they and their children can be exalted.
   
4. Mormon males expect to produce offspring in heaven with their mate(s), offspring who will subsequently be sent to populate their planet and achieve their own exaltation to godhood and so on and so on…

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made man for Himself and in His image to be in communion with God and enter into the love of the Holy Trinity.
   
2. When man fell into sin and marred the image of God in his own being, the second person of the Trinity became incarnate — taking human nature to Himself.
   
3. He then did what He could not do in the form of God: He died to save us from sin and death, so that we could come back into communion with God and share the love of the Holy Trinity. Our hope is to be with God, not to be God (Gn 1-3; Phil 2:5-11).

When Talking to a Mormon

Remember that the Mormon is trained to hide the difference between his beliefs and yours and to present himself as a Christian. However, his belief that he is a Christian is sincere, and his efforts to hide the distinctives of the Mormon religion are pursued in his desire to get you to accept Mormon teachings.

Do not allow glib, surface responses to go unchallenged; press the Mormon to define the Christian-sounding words he is using.

Define your own terms also. Draw the contrast for the Mormon. Calmly and clearly insist that what you and he believe about the nature of God, the identity of Jesus, the nature of man, salvation and eternal life are different. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

Appeal to his honesty and sense of fairness. You might say, "Look, we are not going to get anywhere unless we are honest with each other. Without making any statement about which one of us is right, can't we just acknowledge that we do not worship the same God?" or "Can't we just acknowledge that we do not have the same hope for the future?" Help the Mormon to consider the logical and philosophical problems with the Plan of Eternal Progression.

If God had a Father and He had a Father and so on — then who was the first God? Mormons say it is an "infinite regression." But since there is no way to cross an infinite distance or pass an infinite amount of time, there would be no way to get to "now" and to "us" from an infinite past. Time has to have had a beginning and it did. It began with the creation "of all things seen and unseen" by God. Mormons say that God is omnipotent (almighty, all-powerful), yet they say there are many Gods. There cannot be more than one omnipotent being, so the Mormon conception of God is shrunken and distorted.

A big selling point of the Mormon hope for the future is the idea that families will be together eternally. But if Mormons become Gods of planets and then their children become Gods of other planets — how do the children and parents get together? Can a God leave his planet unattended while he goes to a celestial family reunion? This Mormon selling point would be diminished if we Christians were more vocal about our hope for the "new heavens and new earth" in which we know one another in the all the relationships of our present lives, only in glory (2 Pt 3:13; Rv 21:1).

Welcome the participation of Mormons in causes which we share for the common good: strengthening family life, fighting pornography and abortion, fostering the virtue of patriotism. We honor each Mormon as a person who desires what is genuinely good for himself, his family and his society — and when we share the truths of the Christian faith with him.

[marshmallow]

Call me sacrilegious if you must, but to me the most likely scenario is that we were seeded here on this planet by travelers from space.

You've simply transfered the question of our origins to another planet or galaxy.

Where did the space travelers come from?

Did somebody seed them, too?

Sooner or later you have to confront the same question, don't you?

Where and how did life originate?

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

Jehovah's Witnesses, Branch Davidians, Oneness Pentecostals, etc.

Aren't Branch Davidians just an offshoot of Seventh Day Adventists?

[NYer]

UNfortunately many of the author's assumptions about what Mormons believe are wrong. Sorry.

Please correct whichever of the author's assertions are incorrect, and provide a source. Thanks!

[Pessimist]

"You've simply transfered the question of our origins to another planet or galaxy."

Good point. While I personally favor evolution, you could argue that even if we were seeded here from another planet, that planet's population may have been created by God.

I guess the thing is, even if that is what happened, it would still mean that our existing theology was incorrect.

[Ragtop]

The author says that Mormons believe we are saved by the grace of God alone without works. Which is false. We belive that trhough Christ's atoning for our sins do we find salvation, but with good works as well. To repent means not to repeat the behavior. If I repeat the sin, then I need to repent again, and work hard not ot repeat the sin. The key word being work.
Also if I do not serve my fellow man as Christ taught, then I will not gain salvation by faith alone.
That is where the author is wrong. The source is me. I have been a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since I was eight years old.
You know, I really have no problem at all with people of other faiths or their beliefs. I believe that anything that brings one cloer to God is a good thing. I firmly belive that Mother Teresa will get to Heaven on better standing than I will simply becuase of her good works. I try very hard to have respect and understanding of other people's choices of who and how they choose to worship. I also try very hard to respect what they worship. The same goes with one's political and philosophical beliefs as well. I feel sorry for those that feel need to point out inaccuracies of other's beliefs. I am appalled that other members of my faith would engage in such practices. Discussions like these always remind me about anti-mormon protestors outside of the Temple and Conference Center in Salt Lake City. They use foul and hate filled language in the name of our Savior, and I know that depite what anyone believes, our Savior would not approve or condone such behavior.
Normally I avoid reading articles like this on this website because many who profess to be Christian have said some pretty rude, terrible and disrespectful things about my personal beliefs which I hold sacred. Perhaps this is why the monitors shut down these threads after a while.
I hate to get on a soap box, but I just had to get that off of my chest.

[Dick Vomer]

Is it the Christian belief that God will step in and specifically prevent us from doing that in our future?

No... he created the heaven and the earth....why would he stop us?

Even if we found "life" on other planets, that would still not explain away God.... or his creating us in his image or Jesus Christ.... it's nice to see that at least your curiosity is piqued.

I think some of the greatest Christian writers and theologians started as agnostics or atheist, looked at the question seriously and then logically came to the conclusion that there must be a "God"... and then under more observation and thought came to Christianity.

Good luck to you on your quest. I think we're all stumbling around and I do believe that we are given all the information and free will we need to make the right choice..

[andysandmikesmom]

I, for one do appreciate your getting up on your 'soapbox'...you have pointed out something which I have noticed on so many of the 'religious' threads, which usually always prevents me in ever participating in them...namely, the discussion and conversation so often does not remain a 'friendly' discussion, but quickly downward spirals into a barrage of insults, name-calling, nasty remarks and the like...

Now, I will not identify myself as a Mormon, or a Catholic, or a Baptist, or a member of any organized 'church', as I dont belong to one...instead I am a person, who has gone to various different churches, has read the Bible, and most importantly, I am seeking after the truth as well as I can discern it...

It never helps when a Catholic gets on a post, and insinuates that all Protestants are 'snake handlers', because there exist small groups of protestants who use snakes in their religious services, and it never helps when Protestants call Catholics 'cannibals', because of their belief concerning communion, and it never helps when members of mainstream religions call those who belong to what may appear to be outside of mainstream, as 'cults', and it never helps when members of one church decide that members of another church are simply not Christians...and I have seen all these ideas and worse posted on what are supposed to be religious threads...

I try to read all the religious threads, for information, for enlightenment, for perhaps something that will help me better understand...when I see insults, slurs, airs of superiority, namecalling, and nasty, nasty remarks, thats a sure turnoff...How people can engage in such discourse, ,and then call themselves 'Christians', is really way beyond me...

To me, those who try to keep Christ as a role model, would not engage in such behavior...civil discussions, disageements, points of contention, yes...just being plain rude and nasty, no...But thats just me...

[Ragtop]

Thanks, I appreciate your comments and agree whole-heartedly with you. So long as the snake handlers practice their religion outside of my living room, they can do whatever they feel within the boundaries of the law.

[Logophile]

The author's summary of Mormonism is mostly wrong, sometimes egregiously so.

Anyone who wants to know what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints actually teaches would do better to ask a knowledgeable member of the Church. (Or go to the LDS Church web site.)

[iowamark]

UNfortunately many of the author's assumptions about what Mormons believe are wrong. Sorry.

What, if anything, specifically?

[colorcountry]

I just want to add to logophile that the complete teachings of the LDS are not outlined on their website.

These teachings are simplified so as not to offend anyone that might be interested in becoming a member. They gloss over many of the beliefs about celestial (plural) marriage, tithing, the word of wisdom, garments, three degrees of glory (and what exactly it takes to achieve the Celestial Kingdom) etc.

Those who wish to know the teachings of the church would be wise to look into publications from other sources. I am a seventh generation "mormon" by birth, but now I'm a Christian. I've come to know Jesus as my Savior and not as LDS doctrine teaches, my "older brother," and the older brother of Satan.

In Genesis, the fallen angles described by Moses when he speaks about the earth being cleansed by flood, are called Nephilim (hebrew). Nephilim is plural for the singular Nephi. I'm sure any LDS worth their salt can tell you about Nephi and his travels to the Americas. The whole Book of Mormon is based upon the story of Nephi. Was Nephi then, a fallen angel sent to deceive mankind. If so, where does that put Mormons?

[AlaninSA]

I heard about that, something that they have to wear a certain type of underwear. I wonder how this custom came about.

It's from a corruption of Masonic practices. The founder of the Mormons, Mr. Smith, was a Mason. He corrupted and/or simply "borrowed" many Masonic practices and inocoporated them into the initiation practices of the LDS church.

All in all, a rather juvenile way to found a religion.

[NYer]

The author's summary of Mormonism is mostly wrong, sometimes egregiously so.

Can you provide us with specifics and supporting documentation. Thanks

[2pugs4me]

In Genesis, the fallen angles described by Moses when he speaks about the earth being cleansed by flood, are called Nephilim (hebrew). Nephilim is plural for the singular Nephi.

It may interest you to know that the name Nephi is NOT a Hebrew name -- it is Egyptian, as is the name of Nephi's younger brother, Sam. I always thought it was odd that a name like Sam would appear in the Book of Mormon until I learned that Sam is the Egyptian form of Shem. Also of note is the fact that Laman and Lemuel, Nephi's older brothers, have Arabic names, and the two younger brothers who were conceived during the days of their wandering in the wilderness, were named Jacob and Joseph, which ARE Hebrew names.

It is a well known fact that in Old Testament times names given were very significant and had a meaning associated with the circumstances of their birth or family circumstances -- read the OT account of the births of the 12 sons of Jacob, and you'll see that very clearly. Also note that when Jacob wrestled with God until he had received a blessing, he called the name of the place Peniel, which means "The Face of God."

Now, isn't it interesting that we find three different origins for the names of Lehi's children. The naming of the youngest two, Jacob and Joseph, clearly indicates a connection with the 400 years the Israelites spent wandering in the wilderness. The family of Lehi only spent 8 years, but it must have been equally challenging for them, nonetheless, during that time. Is it possible that the names of Lehi's other children similarly reflect the circumstances in which Lehi found himself at the time of their birth?

And how likely do you think it is that a young man such as Joseph Smith, with very little education, could have hit that nail right on the head if he was just making it up?

[colorcountry]

It may interest you to know that the name Nephi is NOT a Hebrew name -- it is Egyptian, as is the name of Nephi's younger brother, Sam.

It is also the name given by God to fallen angels in Genesis.....maybe this is why ....Joseph Smith, with very little education, could have hit that nail right on the head if he was just making it up? He was given the information by a fallen angel and a minion of Satan. Does that answer you question in a way you might not have wished?

[2pugs4me]

That doesn't deserve a reply.

[AlaninSA]

Oh, please.

The Book of Mormon? What exactly happened to those plates that nobody other than Smith saw?

What exactly is "reformed Egyptian?" That is, other than a made-up language?

How many "Zions" did Smith identify? He seemed to have several convenient "revelations" about this, did he not?

Have you ever compared your "temple ceremonies" to those of the Masons?

[colorcountry]

Sorry you're arguing with the wrong person. I'm on your side.

[colorcountry]

Why, if fallen angels are identified in the septuagint as Nephilim would it be a stretch to think that the Nephi who visited Joseph Smith was also a fallen angel.

[Logophile]

That doesn't deserve a reply.

Oh, I don't know about that. It would seem that colorcountry is at least acknowledging that Joseph Smith did not produce the Book of Mormon on his own -- he must have had supernatural assistance. That is progress.

Of course, she and I differ on the source of that supernatural assistance. Apparently, colorcountry believes that Satan inspired the Book of Mormon. In contrast, I believe that the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God.