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To: ahadams2; Fractal Trader; Zero Sum; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; coffeecup; Paridel; keilimon; ...
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by sionnsar and newheart.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

Humor: The Anglican Blue (by Huber)

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

2 posted on 09/04/2005 3:26:20 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity! || Iran Azadi)
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To: sionnsar

. . . while I respect the writer's views, the alternative to a final authority with the Teaching Office is that Nobody Is In Charge.

The shakeout in ECUSA is nowhere near over.

5 posted on 09/04/2005 3:44:35 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: sionnsar; AnAmericanMother
Curious that he divides out the western fathers from the eastern fathers. That seems very unCatholic for one who claims to be Catholic. Even to an ignorant Latin Rite American like myself.

I do not find the claims to infallibility that the First Vatican Council made on behalf of the Holy Father in Rome to be consistent with the practice of the ancient Church (or of the undivided Church at any time in her history—to my knowledge the East has never accepted the claims to papal infallibility that arose in the West in late antiquity and the Middle Ages).

Perhaps 'late antiquity' started earlier than I thought.

Irenaeus
"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

Cyprian of Carthage
"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]). ... On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

And as to the East not accepting papal authority, the dispute between St. John Chrysostom and the Emperor about the pope is instructive. I'll go with the Ecumenical Patriarch on that one.

11 posted on 09/04/2005 7:23:41 PM PDT by siunevada
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To: sionnsar

The author is sincere in his views about the Catholic Church and the present state of the Anglican Communion. He has obviously spent much time reflecting upon the differences that exists and I commend him for his support of the Pope. If the only sticking point for the author is the issue of papal infallibility then I would challenge him to take the leap of Faith. There is so much good that the Catholic Church offers in its both its constant teaching and tradition. To get stuck on the issue of papal infallibility in comparable to hesitating to cross a bridge because you don’t like the particular architecture. I recently had the opportunity to see the Tiber River in Rome and I have to tell you that it’s not that deep! In fact, the first emperor of Rome widened the river to prevent flooding. I can report to you that today it is still very passable.

John
Confirmed on May 15, 2005


32 posted on 04/18/2006 2:00:12 PM PDT by johnnie7
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