[pahpaw]

I look at John Paul II as a martyr because remember he was in the hospital and they would bring him back to his apartment in the Vatican? When he, himself, realized these were his end days, he would take no drugs to ease his pain. He felt that at the end of his life he should suffer as much as possible like he felt Christ did. He was in terrible, agonizing pain. He suffered horribly before death finally took him (it was reported).

[BulldogCatholic]

That is rediculous and more Vatican II liberal propaganda, just like JPII beautifying over 1000 more than all popes added together over 500 Years!

If you or anyone knew anything about church history, martyr goes back close to the year 250 if I am not mistaken, and the term "martyr" was used as a name for bearing witness with ones own blood; with "confessor" given the name to one who bravely survived persecution. "martyrein" or "bear witness" to Christian belief-through being descriminated against, through suffering, torture, and death. This is what among others Bishop Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp of Smyrna did, and woman such as Blandina, Perpetua, and Felicitas also did, as did Justin Martyr.

The Christian was to to endure the ultimate fate of martrdom but not seek it.

To put this man in the same light as these great Catholics, and give him the title of "The Great" and compare him with St Gregory "The Great" and then call him a "martyr" is to much for any REAL Catholic, who knows their faith and history to stomach

He is no martyr , with his posh travel and with his sheep scattered and Bishops gone wild, to even put him in the same breath as those who were really martyrs is more Vatican II fallacy and comic relief