Posted on 08/18/2005 2:37:43 PM PDT by NYer
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POPE BENEDICT XVI VISIT TO THE SYNAGOGUE, COLOGNE, GERMANY(60:00) LIVE
Friday August 19, 6:00 AM
That is a self-evident truth. About 40% of the Orthodox Liturgy is from the Old Testament. By quoting this, you are confusing the Old Covenant, to which the Christians are heirs, and post 33 AD rabbinical Judaism that rejects, indeed -- condemns Christ. The synagogues are filled with those who reject Him.
The way I see it, the Jews were given the awsome task of making God known to mankind. Instead, they apparently made an exclusive religion out of it. Had it not been for Jesus of Nazareth, the world would still not worship the God of Abraham. So, yes, the salvation definitely came from the Jews such as Jesus Christ, Mary and the Apostles. Trouble is that post 33 A.D. Judaism does not consider them Jewish, but blaspheming apostates.
Hey, we have the OJ trial going on here on this thread, with the Novus Ordo liberals who demand ecumenism as Johnie Cochran and those who are trying to restore some sanity and Christianity to a confused "political" Vatican that is more concerned about PC and Ecumenism than in saving souls as the prosecution...And the defense pulls out the RACE CARD...No I mean the Anti Semitism card to help them in this losing battle that they cant fight by referencing anything that actually upholds the faith and morality because the Post Vatican II popes got out of that business some time ago
Well, at least B16 did not kiss the Koran or some other book that denegrates our Lord, just cuddles up with those who reject him and his teachings, whatever
Any by the way, we are not Jews, we are Christians for those who bought into that rediculous line of JPII calling the Jews "Our Elder brothers". Sorry, but they are no brother of mine, they reject the entire basis of our Faith. Did B16 pray for the coming of the Messiah in the temple as JPII did whenever he went to these events????????????????
"Anti-Semitism...is a movement with which we Christians can have nothing to do. No, no, I say to you it is impossible for a Christian to take part in anti-Semitism. It is inadmissible. Through Christ and in Christ we are the spiritual progeny of Abraham. Spiritually, we are all Semites." -- Pope Pius XI, 1938.
Care to reject Pius XI, also?
BTTT!
Please cite where the Pope has uttered a single word about uniting with the Jewish religion or wants to compromise the deposit of faith to do so. Given the tragic history of anti-Semitism in European history, it seems a decent thing for the Pope to do something polite like this.
Your historical and theological knowledge is just about as accurate as your spelling.
I guess you reject Pius XII and St. Paul as well?
I can't figure out if you are a lunatic fringe sedevacantist, or an agent provocateur for some anti-Catholic group. But whatever your motivation, it's getting very tiresome. Start your own thread, and quit trying to rain on everybody's parade while we are enjoying pictures and reports of WYD.
Romans
Chapter 11
- 1
- 1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? Of course not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
- 2
- God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
- 3
- "Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life."
- 4
- But what is God's response to him? "I have left for myself seven thousand men who have not knelt to Baal."
- 5
- So also at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
- 13
- Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I glory in my ministry
- 14
- in order to make my race jealous and thus save some of them.
- 15
- For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
- 16
- 3 If the firstfruits are holy, so is the whole batch of dough; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
- 17
- But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place and have come to share in the rich root of the olive tree,
- 18
- do not boast against the branches. If you do boast, consider that you do not support the root; the root supports you.
- 19
- Indeed you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
- 20
- That is so. They were broken off because of unbelief, but you are there because of faith. So do not become haughty, but stand in awe.
- 21
- For if God did not spare the natural branches, (perhaps) he will not spare you either.
Let us please distinguish from anti-semitism which is horrible as is any form of descrimination, to that of salvation and ecumenism. If the Catholic church is the one true church, as it was by definition and doctrine for 1962 years until Vatican II and Lumen Gentium when a liberal theologian named Rahner and Ratzinger decided to say that the truth can be found "elsewhere" and one does not no longer need to be a Catholic to be saved, then all, including those of the Jewish faith, if they are enlightened and taught about Christ but reject him, can not be saved, it is that simple.
Catholicism is a religion of sacrifice, something the Modern world which Pope St Pius X warned all about, knows nothing about, nor does the Vatican II church. You read two statements from the Pope and one is "conservative" and the next day he goes and praises some Protestant Taizer who was a heretic and schismatic and says he "is enternal happiness" or whatever. IT is contradictory and leads the sheep to slaughter and actually laughable to anyone who really knows their faith.
Hey Dominick, how do you do that nice little trick and get the italics from my post into yours?
Ahh Yes, but did not our Lord tell the Apostles to go forth and teach the gospels, and
"Whosoever shall not receive you, NOR HEAR YOUR WORDS, going forth out of that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gommorah in the day of judgement than for that city". Ecumenism is contrary to everything in scripture and Catholic teaching and hence the church is in serious default.
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
10:5 hos duodecim misit Iesus praecipiens eis et dicens in viam gentium ne abieritis et in civitates Samaritanorum ne intraveritis
10:6 But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
10:6 sed potius ite ad oves quae perierunt domus Israhel
10:7 And going, preach, saying: The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
10:7 euntes autem praedicate dicentes quia adpropinquavit regnum caelorum
10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give.
10:8 infirmos curate mortuos suscitate leprosos mundate daemones eicite gratis accepistis gratis date
10:9 Do not possess gold, nor silver, nor money in your purses:
10:9 nolite possidere aurum neque argentum neque pecuniam in zonis vestris
10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, nor two coats, nor shoes, nor a staff; for the workman is worthy of his meat.
10:10 non peram in via neque duas tunicas neque calciamenta neque virgam dignus enim est operarius cibo suo
10:11 And into whatsoever city or town you shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and there abide till you go thence.
10:11 in quamcumque civitatem aut castellum intraveritis interrogate quis in ea dignus sit et ibi manete donec exeatis
10:12 And when you come into the house, salute it, saying: Peace be to this house.
10:12 intrantes autem in domum salutate eam
10:13 And if that house be worthy, your peace shall come upon it; but if it be not worthy, your peace shall return to you.
10:13 et siquidem fuerit domus digna veniat pax vestra super eam si autem non fuerit digna pax vestra ad vos revertatur
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.
10:14 et quicumque non receperit vos neque audierit sermones vestros exeuntes foras de domo vel de civitate excutite pulverem de pedibus vestris
10:15 Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
10:15 amen dico vobis tolerabilius erit terrae Sodomorum et Gomorraeorum in die iudicii quam illi civitati
10:16 Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves.
10:16 ecce ego mitto vos sicut oves in medio luporum estote ergo prudentes sicut serpentes et simplices sicut columbae
10:17 But beware of men. For they will deliver you up in councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues.
10:17 cavete autem ab hominibus tradent enim vos in conciliis et in synagogis suis flagellabunt vos
10:18 And you shall be brought before governors, and before kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles:
10:18 et ad praesides et ad reges ducemini propter me in testimonium illis et gentibus
10:19 But when they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what to speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what to speak.
10:19 cum autem tradent vos nolite cogitare quomodo aut quid loquamini dabitur enim vobis in illa hora quid loquamini
10:20 For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.
10:20 non enim vos estis qui loquimini sed Spiritus Patris vestri qui loquitur in vobis
10:21 The brother also shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the son: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and shall put them to death.
10:21 tradet autem frater fratrem in mortem et pater filium et insurgent filii in parentes et morte eos adficient
10:22 And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.
10:22 et eritis odio omnibus propter nomen meum qui autem perseveraverit in finem hic salvus erit
10:23 And when they shall persecute you in this city, flee into another. Amen I say to you, you shall not finish all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man come.
10:23 cum autem persequentur vos in civitate ista fugite in aliam amen enim dico vobis non consummabitis civitates Israhel donec veniat Filius hominis
10:24 The disciple is not above the master, nor the servant above his lord.
10:24 non est discipulus super magistrum nec servus super dominum suum
10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the goodman of the house Beelzebub, how much more them of his household?
10:25 sufficit discipulo ut sit sicut magister eius et servus sicut dominus eius si patrem familias Beelzebub vocaverunt quanto magis domesticos eius
10:26 Therefore fear them not. For nothing is covered that shall not be revealed: nor hid, that shall not be known.
10:26 ne ergo timueritis eos nihil enim opertum quod non revelabitur et occultum quod non scietur
10:27 That which I tell you in the dark, speak ye in the light: and that which you hear in the ear, preach ye upon the housetops.
10:27 quod dico vobis in tenebris dicite in lumine et quod in aure auditis praedicate super tecta
10:28 And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.
BUMP!
Indeed he did ... however, this is a warning to the Gentile Christians not to see their faith as superiority over the Jews.
This is the beautiful promise that when the Jews return to the fullness of their faith (i.e. the Church), they will be grafted back onto what has always been their own native root and the result will be doubly graced.
The statement that the unbelief of the Jews was an integral part of God's plan (not man's) to enable the Gentiles to be saved but that when the "full number" of the Gentiles has come in (presumably at the end of the age of salvation history), the "hardening" resulting in the Jews' unbelief will be removed and "all Israel will be saved".
Hi Michael! Are you taking in any of the events yourself? I think alles ist wunderbar! I was in Koeln last September on the plaza and inside Petersdom. It was my 4th visit, but the first since 1984. Our EWTN Catholic television station carried the entire welcoming ceremonies for Pope Benedikt XVI, and it was very impressive. Germany is such a beautiful country. I hope that the land of my ancestors returns to a stronger Christian faith soon.
Care to reject Pius XI, also?
No, but I respectfully disagree with him. We are spiritual progeny of Abraham, but we are not spiritual progeny of post 33 A.D. Judaism, because it specifically denies Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, the Cornerstone of our Faith.
Care to disagree with that???
Who is talking superiority of faith here? The patriarchs and everything before 33 AD are part of our faith. After 33 AD official Judaism reject Jesus Christ as a blaspheming brigand (even Barbas was "better" because he wasn't blaspheming!). We don't call Latter Day Saints "our brothers" -- even though they claim they are "Christians." How would it look if the Pope went to one of their temples? Judaism rejects Christ Jesus and that is where we part. There is no judgment here. Our clergy has no business visiting any temple that denies or distorts Christ.
Great posts. BTW, what's all the fuss? Jews play Italians in movies (and vice versa) all the time! ; )
. . . but sometimes it finds me anyway. < g >
Paul said it all in Romans. He did not cease to be a Jew because he accepted Christ, nor do Jews who reject Christ cease to be his brothers.
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