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To: annalex; jo kus; rdb3; Rosary
Proper confession is, of course, impossible without faith in Christ. A sin, once confessed and repented for, is absolved. That sinner will sin again. There is, however, only one judgement. At that time his salvation will depend, under the sovereign will of Christ, on the sum total of his unconfessed sin. Indeed, even assuming the unknowable, -- that all sin is confessed and absolved at the time of death, -- the salvation is not merited by the act of confession, but granted by the sovereign Christ.

There is no way possible to confess every sin you have ever committed. On top of that, even ONE sin will keep you from fellowship with God. The ONLY reason we have fellowship with God is because His Son Jesus died for the sins of the world. He was, and is, the only sinless person ever to walk this Earth. Grace is giving us what we don't deserve (eternal life with God) when we shouldn't get it (sinful life).

As far as absolved sin, sin never goes away. You cannot un-sin. You can confess your sins (to God) and you will be forgiven and cleansed of unrighteousness, but your sin is still there. It's simply covered by the Blood of Christ, and therefore ignored by God.

As far as Salvation goes:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9

Salvation is by Grace thorough Faith.

So according to you, what is it I don't understand?

48 posted on 08/11/2005 6:21:42 AM PDT by jtminton (Friends don't let friends have too much cowbell.)
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To: jtminton
Thank you for the thoughtful post.

Indeed, it is often the case that a penitant could not confess every sin. Forms of absolution exist that recognize and absolve sins that could not be remembered due to limitations of mind. A desire to confess them is, of course, still necessary.

On the other hand, only sins committed with the consciousness of mind and with the knowledge and choice of committing a sin need to be confessed. These are "mortal" sins. Sins that are objective wrongs but are committed due to ignorance or honest error are called "venial", those are absolved generally in the course of the Mass. They don't need to be confessed.

The consequence of sin remains after the confession. For example, if a sin involves a crime, the priest will impose restitution, but if the restitution is not possible, the consequence remains even after the penance is complete. A sinner free from unconfessed sin, we believe (without pre-judging the judgement of Christ, goes to Heaven, but he stops in Purgatory on his way, where his saved soul is purified so that he is able to have the Beatific Vision of God.

Feel free to follow up. Good questions.

50 posted on 08/11/2005 7:44:30 AM PDT by annalex
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To: jtminton
You can confess your sins (to God) and you will be forgiven and cleansed of unrighteousness, but your sin is still there. It's simply covered by the Blood of Christ, and therefore ignored by God.

And if your sin is just covered up and not washed away, you will go to hell, because Rev 22 says nothing unclean can enter heaven.

God doesn't deal in legal fictions, and he can't be fooled into just ignoring evil.

52 posted on 08/11/2005 7:58:00 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: jtminton

"As far as absolved sin, sin never goes away. You cannot un-sin. You can confess your sins (to God) and you will be forgiven and cleansed of unrighteousness, but your sin is still there. It's simply covered by the Blood of Christ, and therefore ignored by God."

That is not what Scripture says. Paul says we are transformed, we become a new creation. We are not merely "covered" over. When God says we are a new creation and have been internally changed, it has happened. There is no forensic, imputed justification. God's Word is effective and doesn't need to "ignore" sin. "as far as the east is from the west, so far have our sins been removed from us" - Psalm 103:12


You then quoted ..."For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

What about ..."For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them" - Ephesians 2:10

Why didn't you include the next verse? Were you aware of this verse?

Then you quoted ..."that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9

And what about "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power" - 1 Cor 4:20

or "Children, let us love not in word or speech, but in deed and truth" - 1 John 3:18

or "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord', but do not do what I command"? - Luke 6:46

Brother, Romans 10:9,10 is a Baptismal proclamation, comparable to 1 Tim 6:12. We must profess by our words AND actions.

"What good is it, my brother, if someone says he has faith but does not have works"? James 2:14


"According to me", what you don't understand is that we must display works of love, as faith without love is useless (1 Cor 13:1). When Paul is discussing faith vs. works, he is talking about the attitude that one can "work" their way to salvation. Work demands a wage (Rom 4:4). Salvation is gratis. HOWEVER, the "work" itself is still necessary for salvation. Countless times, the Scriptures tell us that we will be judged based on what we DO. Practically every book of the NT has a verse regarding this.

It is the internal attitude that is important, brother.

If I do x and y (even if it is the greatest charitable contribution), it is meaningless if it is considered a work where God is held responsible to pay me back. Even the OT Jews knew this. No one can "buy" salvation.

But, if I love, I do x and y because I love Christ. Our motives when we are in love are different. We do things for our wives and children, for example, because we love them (hopefully), not because we are expecting something in return. We are able to do this because we are "in Christ". When I abide in Christ, we, Christ and I, are doing the action out of love. THIS has worth to God. This is what Paul and James mean. Faith and "works of Love" cannot be separated.

So if you definition of faith includes obedience to God from our love of Christ, then we can agree with "salvation by faith alone". Without this more broad definition, however, we are not following the entire Scripture and teachings of Christ.

Regards


55 posted on 08/11/2005 8:53:13 AM PDT by jo kus (Sola Scriptura...a house built on the sand of a self-refuting axiom)
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To: jtminton; rdb3
As far as Salvation goes:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9
"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9
Salvation is by Grace thorough Faith.


JT,

"Salvation is by Grace through faith." Amen brother. If you understand this to mean that salvation comes from God, and that faith is required, we are in agreement.

If, on the other hand, what you really mean to assert is that we are saved by faith alone, or by belief alone, then I'd say you're putting your trust in a human invention of the 16th century. The theory about being saved by faith alone was invented by Martin Luther about a millennia and a half after Christ founded His Church (with in which the bible was produced.) Not surprpisingly, "Saved by Faith alone" is not in the bible, and is in fact, it's anti-scriptural.

Unfortunately, there are many who seem to believe that this human hypothesis trumps scripture, and that all scripture must be made subservient to this novel invention. This belief appears to lead some so far as to claim that they are guaranteed to go to heaven when they die because at some point in the past they believed, for one moment, that they were guaranteed to go to heaven. This belief is of course, non-scriptural as well. Having had a momentary belief at some time in the past that one is "saved" regardless of future action does not guarantee that we will go to heaven when we die. I'd certainly love to believe that myself, but it's not supported by scripture.

And JT I'm sure you can agree with me that "saved by faith alone " is not in the bible, right?
59 posted on 08/11/2005 11:00:55 AM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
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To: jtminton

Where does the GRACE come from? What Church has graces? What Church has Confession? What Church did Christ give the keys too and make the First Pope/
Faith,hope and charity..prayers ,goodness,confession,repentance, Grace- Salvation


70 posted on 08/12/2005 4:57:05 PM PDT by Rosary (Pray the rosary daily,wear the Brown scapular)
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