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To: HarleyD

"If the RCC cannot understand the meaning of election, then I don't see how they can understand the meaning of sin. Augustine didn't seem to have a problem."

I don't think the issue is so simple. It really revolves around grace and free will. How much of each is present in man?

Luther said man has no free will to do good. Man is like a horse who is either "ridden by God or the devil". Calvin said that original sin annihilated free will and that the Redemption did not restore it. Of course, Trent opposed this by saying that man has moral freedom in spite of original sin, while also saying that freedom worked with grace. In actuality, there are several Catholic 'systems' of grace : Thomism and Molinism are two. In other words, there is still work among theologians on the particulars of the relationship between grace and free will.


by the way, earlier I had stated that Augustinianism was refuted by the Church. I would like to state that I was mistaken, I was thinking the extreme forms of predestination that Pelagians took up. Sorry for the confusion.

Regards


43 posted on 08/10/2005 10:25:28 PM PDT by jo kus (Protestantism...a house built on the sand of a self-refuting axiom)
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To: jo kus
On the contrary, I think it is entirely that simple. What does it mean to be "elect or choosen" by God? Doesn't the meaning of this then relate back to how God looks at your sin?

This is part of John Calvin's statement on Eph 2:8-9 in regards to man's free will...

If God took the trouble to save you, will He not also keep you? That is what election is all about.

45 posted on 08/11/2005 2:30:36 AM PDT by HarleyD
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