To: HarleyD
"If the RCC cannot understand the meaning of election, then I don't see how they can understand the meaning of sin. Augustine didn't seem to have a problem."
I don't think the issue is so simple. It really revolves around grace and free will. How much of each is present in man?
Luther said man has no free will to do good. Man is like a horse who is either "ridden by God or the devil". Calvin said that original sin annihilated free will and that the Redemption did not restore it. Of course, Trent opposed this by saying that man has moral freedom in spite of original sin, while also saying that freedom worked with grace. In actuality, there are several Catholic 'systems' of grace : Thomism and Molinism are two. In other words, there is still work among theologians on the particulars of the relationship between grace and free will.
by the way, earlier I had stated that Augustinianism was refuted by the Church. I would like to state that I was mistaken, I was thinking the extreme forms of predestination that Pelagians took up. Sorry for the confusion.
Regards
43 posted on
08/10/2005 10:25:28 PM PDT by
jo kus
(Protestantism...a house built on the sand of a self-refuting axiom)
To: jo kus
On the contrary, I think it is entirely that simple. What does it mean to be "elect or choosen" by God? Doesn't the meaning of this then relate back to how God looks at your sin?
This is part of John Calvin's statement on Eph 2:8-9 in regards to man's free will...
For by grace are ye saved. This is an inference from the former statements. Having treated of election and of effectual calling, he arrives at this general conclusion, that they had obtained salvation by faith alone. First, he asserts, that the salvation of the Ephesians was entirely the work, the gracious work of God. But then they had obtained this grace by faith. On one side, we must look at God; and, on the other, at man. God declares, that he owes us nothing; so that salvation is not a reward or recompense, but unmixed grace. The next question is, in what way do men receive that salvation which is offered to them by the hand of God? The answer is, by faith; and hence he concludes that nothing connected with it is our own. If, on the part of God, it is grace alone, and if we bring nothing but faith, which strips us of all commendation, it follows that salvation does not come from us.
Ought we not then to be silent about free-will, and good intentions, and fancied preparations, and merits, and satisfactions? There is none of these which does not claim a share of praise in the salvation of men; so that the praise of grace would not, as Paul shews, remain diminished. When, on the part of man, the act of receiving salvation is made to consist in faith alone, all other means, on which men are accustomed to rely, are discarded. Faith, then, brings a man empty to God, that he may be filled with the blessings of Christ. And so he adds, not of yourselves; that claiming nothing for themselves, they may acknowledge God alone as the author of their salvation.
If God took the trouble to save you, will He not also keep you? That is what election is all about.
45 posted on
08/11/2005 2:30:36 AM PDT by
HarleyD
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