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To: jo kus
On the contrary, I think it is entirely that simple. What does it mean to be "elect or choosen" by God? Doesn't the meaning of this then relate back to how God looks at your sin?

This is part of John Calvin's statement on Eph 2:8-9 in regards to man's free will...

If God took the trouble to save you, will He not also keep you? That is what election is all about.

45 posted on 08/11/2005 2:30:36 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

"On the contrary, I think it is entirely that simple. What does it mean to be "elect or choosen" by God? Doesn't the meaning of this then relate back to how God looks at your sin?"

This is a difficult subject, because we are dealing with God, who does not exist within time, but sees all time now. I suppose God is able to see our response to His love, and we would be considered elect if we showed our faith in Him. The interaction of free will and grace is such that I don't think you can separate the two. I know that grace does not overpower nature (Aquinas), so we have our free will intact.

Of course, the question then is...How do you know you are of the elect? I believe we know when we analyze the fruits of our works and our faith in Christ, although we never know the final result, we can know with good certainty what our current state is.

I don't agree with Calvin's stating that we are saved by faith alone - as even the devil has faith that God exists. I note that Calvin forgets about Eph 2:10, the next verse. I think we also have to include obedience to God. It is clear from the Gospels that we are to obey God. If your definition of faith includes obedience, then we are probably on the same page in this matter.

"The answer is, by faith; and hence he concludes that nothing connected with it is our own" from Calvin

True. But when we are in Christ, we are NOT alone nor doing anything on our own. If Christ is abiding in us, our works are also His works. Paul is clear about this. See esp. Phil 2:12,13.

Regards


53 posted on 08/11/2005 8:14:39 AM PDT by jo kus (Protestantism...a house built on the sand of a self-refuting axiom)
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