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To: nanetteclaret; kosta50; Hermann the Cherusker; Petrosius; conservonator; FormerLib; Agrarian; ...

I found this to be a very perceptive comment:
"People care which way the priest faces because when he faces the congregation, it's almost as if he's turning his back on God and is more concerned with how he's performing in front of the people. The priest isn't there for our entertainment, he's there to offer up our prayers to God. Many people see a priest's turning his back on God as being very flippant at best and sacrilegious at worst. All of the irreverence that has occurred since is a natural by-product."

Now one would think that the above should lead naturally to an examination of the following passage of Holy Scripture:
Mat 16:18 "...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

You see no contradiction?

What if we add other things:
Praying with Jews in a Jewish synagogue;
Receiving a blessing from a Hindu lady;
Allowing a statue of a Buddha to be placed on top of the tabernacle on a Catholic altar;
Kissing the Koran;
Permitting a liturgy at which a bare breasted female reads the Epistle?

Still see no contradiction?


248 posted on 07/28/2005 4:28:11 PM PDT by Graves (Remember Esphigmenou - Orthodoxy or Death!)
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To: Graves
Now one would think that the above should lead naturally to an examination of the following passage of Holy Scripture:
Mat 16:18 "...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

I find it interesting that what you chose to leave out of the quote. The full statement of our Lord was:

17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

252 posted on 07/28/2005 6:00:40 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Graves
Permitting a liturgy at which a bare breasted female reads the Epistle?

How old is she?

It's Friday and you said breast.

262 posted on 07/29/2005 4:56:41 AM PDT by biblewonk (They are not gods which are made with hands.)
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To: Graves
You see no contradiction?

No, what I see is someone who is confused about the nature of Christ’s promise. When our Lord said, "the gates of hell shall not prevail" he was referring to the fact that there would be no deviance from the TRUTH. He was not assuring us that some very stupid, evil people would not infiltrate the Church; He was telling us that their evil would come to no avail. The form of the mass, the orientation of the priest, the role of the laity are important issues but they do not, in any way come to the core of the faith which is expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition (and yes, I agree that the former proceeds from the latter as the latter proceeds from Him who made us) as taught by His Church. The promise of "shall not prevail" was made so that we may have faith in His Church and as a result, confidence in all of His works.

None of the things you listed changed any dogma of the faith any more than the gay "marriage" preformed by an ROC priest changed Orthodox dogma.

280 posted on 07/29/2005 11:53:56 AM PDT by conservonator (Lord, bless Your servant Benedict XVI)
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To: Graves
Your list is part of the reason why I'm converting to Catholicism from Anglicanism now rather than previously. I believe that His Holiness Benedict XVI will turn things around and will guide the Church back to where it's supposed to be. The Church has gotten off course a few times before and the Lord has sent devout and holy men to steer her back. I believe that Benedict is the one for our times and I have confidence in his leadership. (That and the fact that the Anglican Church seems to be going off the deep end.)
282 posted on 07/29/2005 12:43:22 PM PDT by nanetteclaret (The LORD is known by his justice; the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands. Psalm 9:16)
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