Posted on 06/30/2005 6:24:54 PM PDT by sionnsar
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. ping
I for one would welcome a huge measure of Anglo-Catholic influence in restoring reverence, devotion and beauty to Catholic liturgies, which are often execrable (except for my rather traditionally liturgical-minded parish).
I would be interested to know how orthodox Anglicans feel about this.
I agree, I was at an Anglican wedding a while back and the service reminded me a lot of Catholic masses from my childhood.
Sionssar: I was referring to the Author, not you.
We're working on it!
An excellent article and accurate observations. I have often made the remark on this forum that were our local Catholics to pick the church with whom they are closest to, it certainly wouldn't be us Orthodox!
And if you put an Orthodox Christian into services one of our local Catholic parishes and then put them into one of the Anglo-Catholic parishes that I attended back in my Anglican days, there is no question as to which one the Orthodox would say was closest to us...
God willing, some of that Gregorian chant talked about in this article will start to penetrate out into the land of the Oregon missalettes, which are truly excrable, both in language and music. And, if they could just go back to using the traditional English of the old St. Joseph's missal, then we'd really be getting somewhere...
This article echos many of the things that my Roman Catholic in-laws tell me was lost in their Church since Vatican II. Of course, I'm in no position to comment on the accuracy of those statements, only that I'd have to agree with many of the outside observations made here.
Having grown up Catholic, post Vatican II, it always seemed to me that something was missing from the Mass as conducted in my town. The liturgy was downplayed - almost as if it was embarassing. All of the men would stand at the back, near the door, and none of them would ever sing. The teenage girls and the younger women would often walk about in outrageously loud high-heels. Twenty percent of the congregation would process directly from the communion rail to the parking lot, so as not to be caught up in the traffic after the service.
The first time I attended an Anglican Service, everyone sang, and dressed and processed reverently (this was before the pink triangle replaced the cross) and leaving early simply wasn't done. The liturgy was beautiful, and amidst this beauty and reverence, meditation and prayer were wonderful.
I pray that Pope Benedict XVI will inspire the RC Church to reclaim its wonderful liturgy!
If you get a chance attend the Divine Liturgy at a Byzantine Catholic Church. I did and was quite awed.
I will remain Catholic of Latin Rite but sometimes I do yearn for more reverence in our liturgy.
Ping!
Even in the 50s there was a joke around about a driver of a crowded bus shouting to the passengers: "Why don't all of you pretend you're in church and all crowd to the back?"
I prefer the TLM too -- but some things never change!
I like Anglo-Catholics but I do have to say it bugs me that these types of articles, well-meaning as they are, tend to take the worst of the worst examples of American Catholic liturgical abuse and apply it to all of Catholicism.
It's a problem, no doubt, but the whole Church is not engulfed by it, and acting as if were so is insulting to the many good parishes and priests out there.
"Too many Doctrinal differences.."
The origin of the Anglican church is not in any significant theological debate, but in the desire of a secular ruler to obtain a divorce, obtain Church lands and property, and to exercise direct ecclesiastical control. The prime minister still nominates Episcopal candidates. Parliament must vote on any act proposed by the General Synod. The king or queer is the head of the Church of England.
Cardinal John Henry Newman, perhaps the greatest Anglican theologian, helped start the Oxford Movement. Newman and a few of others started this movement to return the Anglican Church to its early roots.
Newman's attempts to link the modern Christian faith with the early Church affirmed many of the doctrines rejected in the Reformation. In the end, Newman was convinced that the first Christians professed the same beliefs practiced by the modern Catholic Church and that the Catholic Church taught with divine authority. Newman eventually concluded that the Church of England was in schism and that Rome was the only valid successor to the historical and ecclesiastical claims of the early Church.
What I find irksome about articles having the general thesis that "the Catholic church is having problems with liturgy and devotional piety" is that they tend to lump all Catholics and parishes together. The article omits mention of the eastern Catholic churches entirely, and tends to lump all Roman Catholic parishes together.
There is an incredible amount of variety that exists within the Catholic church. I've seen Roman Catholic parishes, both TLM and NO, that are both exceptionally devout and have a beautiful liturgy. I've also seen the same in the eastern Catholic churches. While I agree with the author in that Catholics can learn a lot from the high Anglicans, I get the sense that he needs to get out more and see some of the more glaring exceptions to his thesis.
"I have often made the remark on this forum that were our local Catholics to pick the church with whom they are closest to, it certainly wouldn't be us Orthodox!"
Current company excepted? :-)
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