Posted on 06/20/2005 12:16:16 PM PDT by sionnsar
Readers will recall that on June 17 we posted an entry about a post by the Rev. Peter Toon on "Fleeing from the ECUSA: a moral duty?" and we were wondering about the context of a discussion on "Fr. Kim's List" which included the viewpoints of Rev. Samuel Edwards and Rev. Al Kimel. I can now tell you that the viewpoint of Rev. Kimel that was presented was his post from "Pontifications" on Fleeing the Madhouse. Rev. Edwards, after that was posted in the discussion, had this to say:
While I have taken a different route out of the madhouse (to APCK rather than to Rome), I can heartily endorse Al Kimel's article in its entirety. We've walked substantially the same road, had substantially the same experiences, and come to substantially the same conclusions for the same reasons. I unreservedly endorse his reasoning and his core message, which is that ECUSA is not in any genuine sense any longer within the one holy catholic and apostolic church and it is the positive duty of every catholic-minded member of the same to leave it without delay.
Let me underline, along with Al, that this does not exclude those who live in the deceitful safety of ACN/FiFNA dioceses. Regardless of what they say, they are in objective fact in communion with Griswold, Robinson, Ingham, and company. As one who used to play and promote this mind game (for which may God and those to whom I promoted it forgive me) and thus knows it from within, it is not really possible to be genuinely catholic and orthodox while you are institutionally in connection with heretics and apostates. That is an idea which is, not to put to fine a point on it, gnostic. It is like the woman who says to her husband while engaged in an affair with another man, "yes, I'm eating at his table and sleeping in his bed, but I'm really always thinking only of you." Yeah, right. The only thing that could explain such a position, if held sincerely, IS madness. And the madness infects the entirety of ECUSA, not just the militant revisionists.
The message to those remaining in ECUSA -- bishops, priests, deacons, religious, laity -- is clear, and all Al and I and others are doing is to point it out: For the love of Christ, the love of your children, and the salvation of your souls, get out. Get out NOW. There is a city near to flee to, even though it may appear to be a little one. Get out now and don't look back. Remember Lot's wife. [cf. Genesis 19:17ff, Luke 17:31f.]
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. Color me already fled..
Me too. APCK.
I've fled my parish....found a few traditional nearby ECUSA ministers..works for me for now..but ack..the Diocese of NY.
I'm not really persuaded by this writer's reasoning. After all, no matter what church we belong to, some of the people with whom we receive communion, with whom we are "objectively in communion," are people who do not actually believe some significant parts of the faith we profess to share. This is in addition to the people (including all of us at times, I imagine) who do believe their faith, but fall far short of living it out.
His line of thinking would seem to end in "The Church of You and Me and I'm Not Too Sure About You."
Am I totally off base here? (If so, my excuse is that my mind is clouded by the Iraq War debate on the NC board :-).
Hmmm, that reminds me of something else...
I hear you, but Rev Sam is right on target and is not going with the Church of Me and You. After all, the reference he is citing is to the historic Church, not to what Sam Edwards personally thinks ought to be right. That position is basically what ECUSA has taken, though they've also taken care to couch the comment in terms of alleged Divine inspiration. That is also not a new dodge: the Montanists used it in the 2nd Century to promote female ordination, free-form theology and general party attitude in church (and I'm not exaggerating here).
I have started a mission here in central NC with the exact purpose of offering an orthodox alternative to ECUSA affiliation. The local ECUSA parish probably theologically resembles a Network or FiFNA parish but doesn't use a Prayer Book, has a female co-priestess, worships any which way happens to suit the mood. This is probably not going to be a pretty situation over time, but we must put our foot down.
I'm also APCK, btw.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
Beleg the strong, brave and true, but in the end slain by Turin Turambar nonetheless. The work of Thu.
This is the tragedy of it, and a parallel.
Thanks for the comments, gentlemen. I'll have to cogitate :-).
Whaaaaat?!
What is the relationship of APCK to the Anglican Communion? And if you're in a communion led by Rowan Williams, whose public statements strongly suggest he's an atheist, aren't you still kind of in trouble?
Dear Tax-chick:
We are not in communion with ++Rowan. We are not in communion with ECUSA. We are an independent communion with our own Primate, ++Robert Sherwood Morse. We are nationwide in the US. Website: www.anglicanpck.org.
And I think that ++Rowan's comments indicate a mushy pantheistic Unitarianism with Jesus being the vaguely isolated exemplar of the divinity of the universe.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
Yep, that's what a former parishioner told me (at least the non-Prayer Book part).
Looks like fertile mission ground to work upon.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
Tax-chick, Deacon Paul has it exactly correct.
Thank you both for the additional information. Your Archbishop looks like a sweet and very holy man ... like Pope Benedict!
He is sweet and very caring (I could tell you stories), but also a strong defender of the faith. I have been told (by the Rev. Dr. Peter Toon, who is not in the APCK) that of all the Continuing churches the APCK is the strictest regarding its clergy.
My one sorrow is that now that our diocese has a bishop, we don't have annual visits from ++Morse anymore. I only see him at Synod.
Definition of "Continuing churches"?
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