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To: bornacatholic
It is ndeed tough being a traditionalist, with the price of a gallon of gas. I want no part in a liturgy put together by six Protestants and a Masonic priest, (Bugnini). So even though they removed everything offensive to Protestants, they succeeded in making it offensive to many Catholics.
48 posted on 06/06/2005 8:53:56 AM PDT by metfan
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To: metfan
It is ndeed tough being a traditionalist, with the price of a gallon of gas.

LOL I can imagine. Were it even possible to do so, a trip back to the 16th Century would take an awful lot of gas.

I want no part in a liturgy put together by six Protestants and a Masonic priest, (Bugnini). So even though they removed everything offensive to Protestants, they succeeded in making it offensive to many Catholics.

"THE MASS IS THE SAME"

Address of Pope Paul VI to a General Audience, November 19, 1969

Our Dear Sons and Daughters:

1. We wish to draw your attention to an event about to occur in the Latin Catholic Church: the introduction of the liturgy of the new rite of the Mass. It will become obligatory in Italian dioceses from the First Sunday of Advent, which this year falls on November 30. The Mass will be celebrated in a rather different manner from that in which we have been accustomed to celebrate it in the last four centuries, from the reign of St. Pius V, after the Council of Trent, down to the present.

2. This change has something astonishing about it, something extraordinary. This is because the Mass is regarded as the traditional and untouchable expression of our religious worship and the authenticity of our faith. We ask ourselves, how could such a change be made? What effect will it have on those who attend Holy Mass? Answers will be given to these questions, and to others like them, arising from this innovation. You will hear the answers in all the Churches. They will be amply repeated there and in all religious publications, in all schools where Christian doctrine is taught. We exhort you to pay attention to them. In that way you will be able to get a clearer and deeper idea of the stupendous and mysterious notion of the Mass.

3. But in this brief and simple discourse We will try only to relieve your minds of the first, spontaneous difficulties which this change arouses. We will do so in relation to the first three questions which immediately occur to mind because of it.

4. How could such a change be made? Answer: It is due to the will expressed by the Ecumenical Council held not long ago. The Council decreed: "The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as also the connection between them, can be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful can be more easily accomplished.

5. "For this purpose the rites are to be simplified, while due care is taken to preserve their substance. Elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated, or were added with but little advantage, are now to be discarded. Where opportunity allows or necessity demands, other elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the earlier norm of the Holy Fathers" (Sacrosanctum Concilium #50).

6. The reform which is about to be brought into being is therefore a response to an authoritative mandate from the Church. It is an act of obedience. It is an act of coherence of the Church with herself. It is a step forward for her authentic tradition. It is a demonstration of fidelity and vitality, to which we all must give prompt assent.

7. It is not an arbitrary act. It is not a transitory or optional experiment. It is not some dilettante's improvisation. It is a law. It has been thought out by authoritative experts of sacred Liturgy; it has been discussed and meditated upon for a long time. We shall do well to accept it with joyful interest and put it into practice punctually, unanimously and carefully.

8. This reform puts an end to uncertainties, to discussions, to arbitrary abuses. It calls us back to that uniformity of rites and feeling proper to the Catholic Church, the heir and continuation of that first Christian community, which was all "one single heart and a single soul" (Acts 4:32). The choral character of the Church's prayer is one of the strengths of her unity and her catholicity. The change about to be made must not break up that choral character or disturb it. It ought to confirm it and make it resound with a new spirit, the spirit of her youth.

9. The second question is: What exactly are the changes?

10. You will see for yourselves that they consist of many new directions for celebrating the rites. Especially at the beginning, these will call for a certain amount of attention and care. Personal devotion and community sense will make it easy and pleasant to observe these new rules. But keep this clearly in mind: Nothing has been changed of the substance of our traditional Mass. Perhaps some may allow themselves to be carried away by the impression made by some particular ceremony or additional rubric, and thus think that they conceal some alteration or diminution of truths which were acquired by the Catholic faith for ever, and are sanctioned by it. They might come to believe that the equation between the law of prayer, lex orandi and the law of faith, lex credendi, is compromised as a result.

11. It is not so. Absolutely not. Above all, because the rite and the relative rubric are not in themselves a dogmatic definition. Their theological qualification may vary in different degrees according to the liturgical context to which they refer. They are gestures and terms relating to a religious action--experienced and living--of an indescribable mystery of divine presence, not always expressed in a universal way. Only theological criticism can analyze this action and express it in logically satisfying doctrinal formulas. The Mass of the new rite is and remains the same Mass we have always had. If anything, its sameness has been brought out more clearly in some respects.

12. The unity of the Lord's Supper, of the Sacrifice on the cross of the re-presentation and the renewal of both in the Mass, is inviolably affirmed and celebrated in the new rite just as they were in the old. The Mass is and remains the memorial of Christ's Last Supper. At that Supper the Lord changed the bread and wine into His Body and His Blood, and instituted the Sacrifice of the New Testament. He willed that the Sacrifice should be identically renewed by the power of His Priesthood, conferred on the Apostles. Only the manner of offering is different, namely, an unbloody and sacramental manner; and it is offered in perennial memory of Himself, until His final return (cf. De la Taille, Mysterium Fidei, Elucd. IX).

13. In the new rite you will find the relationship between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist, strictly so called, brought out more clearly, as if the latter were the practical response to the former (cf. Bonyer). You will find how much the assembly of the faithful is called upon to participate in the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice, and how in the Mass they are and fully feel themselves "the Church." You will also see other marvelous features of our Mass. But do not think that these things are aimed at altering its genuine and traditional essence.

14. Rather try to see how the Church desires to give greater efficacy to her liturgical message through this new and more expansive liturgical language; how she wishes to bring home the message to each of her faithful, and to the whole body of the People of God, in a more direct and pastoral way.

15. In like manner We reply to the third question: What will be the results of this innovation? The results expected, or rather desired, are that the faithful will participate in the liturgical mystery with more understanding, in a more practical, a more enjoyable and a more sanctifying way. That is, they will hear the Word of God, which lives and echoes down the centuries and in our individual souls; and they will likewise share in the mystical reality of Christ's sacramental and propitiatory sacrifice.

16. So do not let us talk about "the new Mass." Let us rather speak of the "new epoch" in the Church's life.

With Our Apostolic Benediction.

end of quote

It appears you consider the Divinely Established Authority unworthy of your obdeience. C'est la vie. What does the Pope know anyhow? Who died, resurrected and made him the one with supreme authority anyhow?

And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven

49 posted on 06/06/2005 10:11:49 AM PDT by bornacatholic (It must be tough being a traditionalist what with all the correcting of HM Church it demands)
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To: metfan
they removed everything offensive to Protestants

Must we hear this over and over again? Since when have Protestants not been opposed to the doctrine of the Mass as a propitiatory sacrifice to be offered for the living and the dead, or the practice of the Invocation of Saints, or Transubstantiation, etc.? Would you like to explain how a Protestant could use, say, Lauda Sion in good conscience? - and yes, that's still right there in the Gradual. Do Protestants now confess their sins to the saints, or declare they offer a sacrifice for the pardon of sins? I have always thought that general Protestant belief was decidedly against such practices, but perhaps you can enlighten me. Do Protestants now approve of such prayers as the following (from the Missal "put together by six Protestants and a Masonic priest" - since you probably can't read Latin, I've translated for you)?

Hostiam tibi placationis offerimus, Domine,
suppliciter deprecantes,
ut, Deiparae virginis beatique Ioseph interveniente suffragio,
familias nostras in tua gratia firmiter et pace constituas.

We offer to thee a sacrifice of appeasement, O Lord, bending down suppliantly, so that, by the intervening suffrage of the virgin Mother of God and the blessed Joseph, thou mayest constitute our families firmly in thy grace and peace. (Super oblata, Feast of the Holy Family)

Ecclesiae tuae, quaesumus, Domine, dona propitius intuere,
quibus non iam aurum, thus et myrrha profertur,
sed quod eisdem muneribus declaratur, immolatur et sumitur,
Iesus Christus.

We beg thee, O Lord, gaze down more propitiously on the gifts of thy Church, in which gold, francincense, and myrrh are no longer brought forth, but what in these same gifts is declared, immolated and received, Jesus Christ. (Super oblata, Epiphany)

Suscipe munera, Domine,
in dilecti Filii tui revelatione delata,
ut fidelium tuorum oblatio in eius sacrificium transeat,
qui mundi voluit peccata miseratus abluere.

Receive these gifts, O Lord, brought in the revelation of thy beloved Son, that the oblation of thy faithful may transform into his sacrifice, who, having pity, willed to wash away the sins of the world. (Super oblata, Baptism of the Lord)

Concede nobis, quaesumus, Domine, haec digne frequentare mysteria, quia, quoties huius hostiae commemoratio celebratur, opus nostrae redemptionis exercetur.

We beg thee, O Lord, concede to us to frequent worthily these mysteries, since, as often as the commemoration of this victim is celebrated, the work of our redemption is carried out. (Super oblata, 2nd Sunday of Ordinary Time)

Munera nostra, Domine, suscipe placatus,
quae sanctificando nobis, quaesumus,
salutaria fore concede.

Appeased, receive our gifts, O Lord, which, we beg, by sanctifying for us, grant to be saving things. (Super oblata, 3rd Sunday of Ordinary Time)

Altaribus tuis, Domine, munera nostrae servitutis inferimus,
quae, placatus assumens,
sacramentum nostrae redemptionis efficias.

We bring in to thy altars, O Lord, the gifts of our service, which, taking them up appeased, thou makest into the sacrament of our redemption. (Super oblata, 4th Sunday of Ordinary Time)

Notice a pattern? No Protestant could say those prayers, and they were all published in the "liturgy put together by six Protestants and a Masonic priest". "[W]hat in these same gifts is declared, immolated and received, Jesus Christ" - inoffensive to Protestants? Give me a break.

Hint: you might have better luck criticizing the ICEL-translated liturgy which DOES water down Catholic doctrine. It was not, however, written by your evil boogeymen, the "six Protestants and a Masonic priest".

59 posted on 06/06/2005 8:38:20 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.)
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