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To: metfan
they removed everything offensive to Protestants

Must we hear this over and over again? Since when have Protestants not been opposed to the doctrine of the Mass as a propitiatory sacrifice to be offered for the living and the dead, or the practice of the Invocation of Saints, or Transubstantiation, etc.? Would you like to explain how a Protestant could use, say, Lauda Sion in good conscience? - and yes, that's still right there in the Gradual. Do Protestants now confess their sins to the saints, or declare they offer a sacrifice for the pardon of sins? I have always thought that general Protestant belief was decidedly against such practices, but perhaps you can enlighten me. Do Protestants now approve of such prayers as the following (from the Missal "put together by six Protestants and a Masonic priest" - since you probably can't read Latin, I've translated for you)?

Hostiam tibi placationis offerimus, Domine,
suppliciter deprecantes,
ut, Deiparae virginis beatique Ioseph interveniente suffragio,
familias nostras in tua gratia firmiter et pace constituas.

We offer to thee a sacrifice of appeasement, O Lord, bending down suppliantly, so that, by the intervening suffrage of the virgin Mother of God and the blessed Joseph, thou mayest constitute our families firmly in thy grace and peace. (Super oblata, Feast of the Holy Family)

Ecclesiae tuae, quaesumus, Domine, dona propitius intuere,
quibus non iam aurum, thus et myrrha profertur,
sed quod eisdem muneribus declaratur, immolatur et sumitur,
Iesus Christus.

We beg thee, O Lord, gaze down more propitiously on the gifts of thy Church, in which gold, francincense, and myrrh are no longer brought forth, but what in these same gifts is declared, immolated and received, Jesus Christ. (Super oblata, Epiphany)

Suscipe munera, Domine,
in dilecti Filii tui revelatione delata,
ut fidelium tuorum oblatio in eius sacrificium transeat,
qui mundi voluit peccata miseratus abluere.

Receive these gifts, O Lord, brought in the revelation of thy beloved Son, that the oblation of thy faithful may transform into his sacrifice, who, having pity, willed to wash away the sins of the world. (Super oblata, Baptism of the Lord)

Concede nobis, quaesumus, Domine, haec digne frequentare mysteria, quia, quoties huius hostiae commemoratio celebratur, opus nostrae redemptionis exercetur.

We beg thee, O Lord, concede to us to frequent worthily these mysteries, since, as often as the commemoration of this victim is celebrated, the work of our redemption is carried out. (Super oblata, 2nd Sunday of Ordinary Time)

Munera nostra, Domine, suscipe placatus,
quae sanctificando nobis, quaesumus,
salutaria fore concede.

Appeased, receive our gifts, O Lord, which, we beg, by sanctifying for us, grant to be saving things. (Super oblata, 3rd Sunday of Ordinary Time)

Altaribus tuis, Domine, munera nostrae servitutis inferimus,
quae, placatus assumens,
sacramentum nostrae redemptionis efficias.

We bring in to thy altars, O Lord, the gifts of our service, which, taking them up appeased, thou makest into the sacrament of our redemption. (Super oblata, 4th Sunday of Ordinary Time)

Notice a pattern? No Protestant could say those prayers, and they were all published in the "liturgy put together by six Protestants and a Masonic priest". "[W]hat in these same gifts is declared, immolated and received, Jesus Christ" - inoffensive to Protestants? Give me a break.

Hint: you might have better luck criticizing the ICEL-translated liturgy which DOES water down Catholic doctrine. It was not, however, written by your evil boogeymen, the "six Protestants and a Masonic priest".

59 posted on 06/06/2005 8:38:20 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.)
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To: gbcdoj; metfan
Max Thurian, a protestant minister (Taize Community) who observed the second vatican council, was one of the 6 prot ministers "credited" with changing the Mass into a protestant version of the Last Supper.

So, it makes one wonder why he troubled himself to convert to Catholicsm after the Council. What would be the point?

Protestants were guaranteed safe passage to and fro Trent and were givewn lewave to introduce and debate ANY issue/topic/doctrine etc.

I guess that means Trent is heretical also

62 posted on 06/07/2005 3:40:01 AM PDT by bornacatholic (It must be tough being a traditionalist what with all the correcting of HM Church it demands)
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