Is the new Pope a Catholic? Yes, strangely

scotsman.com ^ | 04/24/05 | GERALD WARNER

[murphE]

"The Reformation began in Europe in 1519; the Counter-Reformation did not get under way until the Council of Trent, which ended in 1563. The Second Reformation began in 1962: we may soon see the first stirrings of a Second Counter-Reformation."

ping

[Salvation]

**we may soon see the first stirrings of a Second Counter-Reformation.**

Keep praying!

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Let us hope and pray for a more reverent and prayerful NO Mass. Namely, a better translation of the Latin, greater use of Eucharistic Prayer 1 (it is so beautiful), more Latin (Confiteor, Kyrie, Pater Noster, Agnus Dei), Tabernacle front and center, and good bye Marty Haugen (some of his stuff is good, but others (wincing).

[Miss Marple]

I am watching a replay of a discussion with Cardinal Pell of Australia. My goodness he is an impressive man!

[Salvation]

While you were in Australia did you hear Cardinal Pell at all?

[livius]

the blinkered, post-Conciliar psyche that suggests the Church was founded in 1962, rather than two millennia ago.

This is the thing that has always irritated me more than anything else. Even in the writings of JPII, there were more references to the "documents of the Council" (and his own earlier writings) than to the Fathers of the Church or even previous Popes. It was as though it had all begun 40 years ago.

[te lucis]

What continues to confuse me about the reaction of the "orthodox" Mother Angelica types is that in their view, the accession of B16 is seen as a sign of the eradication of Church-sanctioned nonsense, a death-knell for the liturgical revolution. Yet, there is no acknowledgment at all of the fact that 26.5 of the last 40 years of the Church's downward spiral they're so sorely distressed by were presided over by Saint John Paul The Great, patron of the New Springtime.

TO they imagine that B16 will succeed where JP2 failed, and if JP2 failed so miserably for things to be so in need of fixing, maybe he wasn't so Great after all.

[Salvation]

Where are you getting this information? Just from talking with folks?

Source?

[te lucis]

A source that shows the Church has been in decline for the last 40 years? Are you serious?

[Thorin]

I think the author's suggestion of wider use of the Tridentine Mass and reform of the Mass of Paul VI is dead on. I go to a church where the new Mass is celebrated in a reverent manner, we often sing or chant in Greek or Latin, and the priest regularly preaches on the importance of the Eucharist. No one who attends my parish can have any doubt that Our Lord is truly present body and blood, soul and divinity in the Blessed Sacrament. There is no good reason why every Novus Ordo parish cannot be like mine.

[Thorin]

Interesting tag line. I can't recall any instance of someone who was excommunicated being canonized. Maybe you can enlighten me.

As for John Paul II, he once again allowed the celebration of the Tridentine Mass, and encouraged societies devoted to it to flourish. He also greatly encouraged orthodoxy among younger Catholics: the seminarians at the North American College who were celebrating Benedict's election were inspired to the priesthood by John Paul.

[Salvation]

I happen to disagree with you -- maybe the church is declining in Europe, but overall, it is growing.

Catholic Parishes Flourish in Southern U.S.

Bible-belt Catholics

Number of Catholics Rises by 15 Million (Diocesan Priests Increase; Religious Decrease)

Spanish Catholicism still very robust (3 shrines and The Sagrada Familia)

Catholics outsource praying to India

Catholic Priests in India 'Outsourced' to Meet Clergy Shortage in West

Christian Coalition head (in Ala.) becomes Catholic

Church growth continues for Catholic and Pentecostals; six mainline denominations decline

Young people turn against their parents' 'church lite'

Pope calls US Church to repentance and renewal

A father for the 11th time - Widower becomes Catholic priest

Number of Adults Who Don't Attend Church Service Doubles

Huge Christian growth shocks China's leaders

Church Attendance Increased : Protestants have now clearly overtaken Catholics in church attendance

Catholics Trail Protestants in Church Attendance [Gallup]

Church Attendance Linked to Longer Life

Church Growth and Eveangelism

Dozens of Episcopalians Follow Leader into Catholic Church

Thousands prepare to join U.S. Catholic Church this Easter

Where Have All the People in the Pews Gone?

More Than 150,000 People to Join Catholic Church Holy Saturday

Spirituality on the rise on college campuses

Analysis: Rome up, Protestantism down?

[murphE]

St. Athanasius

[Tantumergo]

"Even in the writings of JPII, there were more references to the "documents of the Council" (and his own earlier writings) than to the Fathers of the Church or even previous Popes. It was as though it had all begun 40 years ago."

Bingo!

This is what is most encouraging about the beginnings of the new Papacy so far. I have heard him quote Scripture and the Fathers more than he has spoken about VII.

[Tantumergo]

"I can't recall any instance of someone who was excommunicated being canonized."

St. Hippolytus (excommunicated as an anti-Pope), St. Athanasius, St. Joan of Arc (burned as a heretic). I believe St. John Chrysostom was also excommunicated at least once before he became the great Archbishop of Constantinople.

[Thorin]

>>>>St. Hippolytus (excommunicated as an anti-Pope), St. Athanasius, St. Joan of Arc (burned as a heretic). I believe St. John Chrysostom was also excommunicated at least once before he became the great Archbishop of Constantinople.

Thanks for the information. Were any of these excommunicated as the result of the actions of the Pope?

[te lucis]

I can't recall any instance of someone who was excommunicated being canonized. Maybe you can enlighten me.

St. Athanatius.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

That's a lot like my parish. We have Eucharistic adoration, the priest talks about Jesus as our Eucharistic Lord often, pushes confession, especially at Advent and Lent (in the days before the Triduum and Christmas, for about 5 days, he keeps confessional hours for four hours a day as well as have special penance services, with a brief prayer time, and then it's off to see one of four or so priests for confession. We do the 40 hours the week before Easter.

His masses are reverent, he has homilies even at daily mass, and he's a good teacher.

It is possible. What makes it happen are good, believing, God-loving priests who believe what the church teaches.

And that's what we have to pray and work for, and encourage when we see it.

[te lucis]

As for John Paul II, he once again allowed the celebration of the Tridentine Mass, and encouraged societies devoted to it to flourish.

Had it been disallowed?

He also greatly encouraged orthodoxy among younger Catholics:

WYD?