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To: traviskicks
My answer is that many religions DO practice and believe similar ideas to the Christian religion, but call them something else.

Practice = works.
The bible says that even the demons believe in Jesus, but even that cannot save them.
See Titus 3:5 and Matthew 7:22-23

If a Hindu who has never heard of Jesus - say he lives in a small village with no communication - does the things you say, asks God for forgivness, prostrates himself as sinner, believes in all the teachings and 'idea' of Jesus, but doesn't call Jesus by His name and still considers himself a Hindu and practices it's traditions, can he still find the open door?

Your analogy does not fit what I was saying... however in short, the answer is no. In order to explain why, I need to parse your analogy into 3 sections:

1. Asks God for forgiveness and prostrates himself as a sinner.

THIS is what I was saying. However, before this conviction can be truly heart felt, One would have to recognize that his/her current path is not cutting the mustard... The emptiness from the guilt of sin is still present... and there is a recognition that we are not capable of measuring up to God's standard. When this happens, it is my point that God (Jesus) WILL reveal Himself to that person, whether it be by missionary, literature, or direct revelation through dreams or even a near or full death experience.

2. ...believes in all the teachings and 'idea' of Jesus, but doesn't call Jesus by His name...

Again, we are not saved by what teachings we follow. This is works. A man approached Jesus who had much (very rich) and asked what he could do to attain eternal life. Jesus asked him about his walk in righteousness. The man replied that he had kept all the commandments and the law. Jesus told him to go sell all that he had and to follow Him. The man could not comply and left disappointed, because he placed more faith and love into what he had, than what he did not have.
It is interesting though to note, that this is also where Jesus said (after the guy left) that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. Many people interpret this to mean 'impossible'... However, that is not true. The "eye of the needle" was a phrase or term used to refer to a small passageway in the rear or side of a city's walls which was big enough for people or horses, but too small for camels. However, merchants were often required to use these entrances anyway. In order to get their camel through the eye of the needle, they had to unload any burdens the animal was carrying, and then force the animal to kneel as it moved through the doorway. Interesting huh?

3. ...still considers himself a Hindu and practices it's traditions.

This would not happen with a person who has truly met Jesus. When a person has truly found the Lord through humility and total reliance upon God (point 1), a spiritual blindfold is lifted. The person would realize that the teachings of Hinduism and it's traditions are opposed to the concept of Grace based salvation, even though there are many sound moral principles that are observed. This is why one cannot find Jesus through other religions. Not by works but by Grace... that NO man may boast.

Judgement by works is a bit unfair considering innate handicaps, etc.. Judgement by Grace, faith, or some 'undefined inconceivable fromula' seems much fairer. Funny how academics don't pick up on this... :)

Hmmm... Interesting you brought up the fairness...
This is the spiritual blindfold I was speaking of.
We want to do it OUR way... Man considers himself sufficient in all things... and of course, it doesn't sound just that a righteous man (in the eyes of man) would be condemed to hell for nothing... but again, if we are not saved by our works, we are not condemed for them either. The truth of the matter is that we are born dead because of Adam's sin, and remain dead because of our own pride. (which is sin)



132 posted on 01/27/2005 9:09:48 AM PST by Safrguns (It's Bush's Fault I owe $5.00 to FR!!!)
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To: Safrguns

Very cool about the needle! No, I didn't know that.

I think I now fully understand your position. Our positions are somewhat close to each other, but there is still a bit of space between us. I guess that part is just something we will have to agree to disagree about.

And I agree speculation about judgement is relatively useless. After all, 'judge not, lest ye be judged.'


133 posted on 01/27/2005 3:48:38 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/blackconservatism.htm)
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