Posted on 12/19/2004 7:03:43 PM PST by Mr. Mulliner
Jeremiah 31:31-33 is a future event. It has not happened yet.
Hebrews 10:14-18 explicitly says otherwise.
Interesting... OK, this is a stretch, but here goes...
The Feast of the Tabenacles was an eight-day celebration of the Dedication of the Temple of Solomon. That Temple was destroyed, and rebuilt. The feast of the dedication of the 2nd Temple is Christmas (Chislev 25th). So is it too much of a stretch to keep the feast of the Dedication of the Temple by celebrating the 25th of Chislev, when the Spirit of God came to dwell among Men?
Just curious where does the idea that Tabernacles had anything to do with dedication of the temple come from? The feast of tabernacles was to remember how their ancestors dwelled in booths in the wilderness.
That passage is what is referenced in Hebrews 8. With the coming of Messiah at the "last days" the old covenant was passing away. The new covenant had come.
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;"
Why did Y’shua choose to enter Jerusalem on a an ass
"Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written: 'Fear not, daughter of Zion; Behold, your King is coming, Sitting on a donkey's colt.' "
on the exact day predicted by Daniel? Why did He celebrate the Passover Seder as the unblemished Lamb ? Why did He die for our sins on the day that all sin(pride) is removed ? Why did He rise from the dead on the Feast of First Fruits ? And why did the Ruach haKodesh come to the Jews on the feast of Shavuot?
As it is written, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
All the law and the prophets were testifying of Jesus. Once He came and "fulfilled all righteousness" all these images, shadows, and types were no longer necessary. They have passed away with the older covenant from the people of God. We no longer worship with an earthly high priest, bloody sacrifices, and annual feast days. We worship in simplicity, with simple elements such as baptism (replacing circumcision) and the Lord's Supper (replacing passover).
"And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.' "
………
We worship in simplicity, with simple elements such as baptism (replacing circumcision) and the Lord's Supper (replacing passover)……..
25 posted on 12/21/2004 7:40:44 AM MST by topcat54
Do you have some scripture to support this belief?
Be like the Bereans !
Do you follow the roman religion of Constantine?
Do you celebrate the pagan holidays of Tammuz and Ishtar ?
If you review the gospels I think you find that the so called
“last supper” (pesech seder) is not complete as the
fourth cup has not yet been drunk but will be
drunk in future during the marriage feast of the Lamb.
See Bishop Alfred Edersheim.
In His Forever Grip
chuck
I agree we should avoid human traditions, however, that does not legitimize the old covenant feast days as normative for Christ's Church today.
Questions that need to be considered:
Why is it that passover could not be attended by non-circumcized males?
Why is Passover specifically tied to blood sacrifices?
Why is it that "tabernacles" was specifically tied to "gather[ing] in the fruit of the land"? (Not any old "land")
Why is the Day of Atonement specifically tied to an "offering made by fire to the Lord"?
No one celebrates these feast todays as they are commanded in the Levitical code. And God never commanded His people to keep these feast in any way but according to the Levitical code. E.g., a "passover" service that deviates from Exodus 12, Numbers 9, and Deuteronomy 16 is just as much a human tradition as Christmas; "You may not sacrifice the Passover within any of your gates which the Lord your God gives you; but at the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide, there you shall sacrifice the Passover at twilight, at the going down of the sun, at the time you came out of Egypt."
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." (Deut. 4:2)
Modern, accommodated observances of old covenant feasts are obviously human additions to the Word of God.
I think you folks are kidding yourselves into believing that these were not uniquely Jewish feast days foreshadowing the coming of Messiah, and not to be continued once He had appeared.
See my post #27.
You see the extent to which human traditions have clouded this issue.
I follow the Christian religion of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and the other apostles. I structure my beliefs on the Word of God. I find it useful to read the words of other Christians and compare them to the Bible for validation that those human words are authentic.
Do you celebrate the pagan holidays of Tammuz and Ishtar ?
And just for the record, I do not celebrate any of the so-called Christian "holy days".
I remember the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Christ weekly on the Lord's Day, the Christian Sabbath. We celebrate the Lord's Supper in remembrance of Him. That is the only holy day prescribed by God under the new covenant.
Following his conversion, Edersheim served as a Presbyterian minister. Later, he became an deacon and priest in the Church of England, but I don't believe he was ever consecrated a bishop.
"And He said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.' " (Mark 2:27,28)
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." (Acts 20:7)
"On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come." (1 Cor. 16:2)
By way of fuller explanation I offer the comments of RL Dabney, a Presbyterian theologian of the 19th century. He wrote:
The second opinion is that embodied in the Westminster Confession; and to the honor of the Presbyterian branches of the Protestant body it may be asserted that these have been, since the Reformation, the most intelligent and decided supporters of it. These Christians believe that the sanctification of some stated portion of time, such as God may select, to his worship, is a duty of a perpetual obligation for all ages, dispensations and nations, as truly as the other unchangeable duties of morals and religion; and that the Sabbath command has been to this extent always a "moral" one, as distinguished from a "positive ceremonial" one. They believe that God selected one-seventh as his proper portion of time at the creation, at Sinai, and again at the incoming of the last dispensation. But when the ceremonial law was for a particular, temporary purpose added to the original, patriarchal dispensation, the seventh day became also for a time a Levitical holy day and a type. This temporary feature has of course passed away with the Jewish institutions. Upon the resurrection of Christ the original Sabbath obligation was by God fixed upon the first day of the week, because this day completed a second work even more glorious and beneficent than the world's creation, by the rising of Christ from the tomb. Hence, from that date to the end of the world the Lord's day is, by divine and apostolic authority, substantially what the Sabbath day was originally to God's people. It is literally the "Christian Sabbath," and is to be observed with the same sanctity as it was by the patriarchs.His full comments can be found here.
Nice to meet you...not KC, but Grand Rapids. KC is my initials...:-)
I think you're mixing up Hanukkah with Tabernacles.
You are correct about the high priests, circumcision and sacrifices. all of these are scripturally specified...or rather clarified.. But annual feast days are not. For example, the bread and wine did not "replace" Passover. In the bible, these were new symbols that beome associated with the yearly festival of Passover. Christ tells us do them in remembrance of him on the Passover because that is the day he he was killed on. It is only by tradition that hardly anyone performs this memorial service on Passover.
Reflections for Advent and Christmas, [November 28, 2004 - January 9, 2005]
Great post, thanks
There is no scriptural basis for this. A biblical Christian could not possibly have considered the 7th day sabbath as obselete and having been replaced by the Sunday, the "Lord's Day". Historically, this was still not settled as late as 364 AD because in that year the emerging universal church found it neccessary to tell Christans that they mustn't observe the 7th day sabbath. The Council of Laodecia came up with this proclamation:
CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.(Source: Council of Laodicea
Scripturally there is no way that everyone was not observing the 7th day sabbath. It is one of the ten commandments. There was no new testament.
The doing away of the sabbath and the feast days are rooted in anti-semitism. The same council found it neccesary to council Christians not to partake of Jewish feasts:
CANON XXXVII.
IT is not lawful to receive portions sent from the feasts of Jews or heretics, nor to feast together with them.
CANON XXXVIII.
IT is not lawful to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety.
The new covenant altered how the feast days are kept, but never said that the feast days are done away with. For example sacrifices are no longer required because Hebrews 10 clearly and absolutely spells this out. But there is no statement that one can point to that says that God ever did away with his holy days. And remember...they are his, not ours.
Modern, accommodated observances of old covenant feasts are obviously human additions to the Word of God.
Since the death of Christ did away with the need for sacrifice and the Levitical priesthood, here is an example of how one holy day is altered:
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
No change to God's weekly feast, the sabbath.
Lev 23:4 These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].
I think you folks are kidding yourselves into believing that these were not uniquely Jewish feast days foreshadowing the coming of Messiah, and not to be continued once He had appeared.
Why then did the early church continue to keep them? Why did Christ diligently keep them? And what inspired Paul to write:
Col 2:16,17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.
The relevant words here are "are a shadow". ARE. Not "were", but "are". Paul, under the guidance of the Holy spirit, wrote this 30 or more years after the death of Christ and said they ARE a shadow of things to come. In other words, Paul believed they still had relevance to future events...which of course they do.
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