Posted on 12/08/2004 11:08:38 PM PST by Mike10542
Hey fellow freepers, having been swept up in the battle of conservatives first liberals and believers in God vs. non-beleivers I clearly have chosen the right side here (hence me writing on Free Republic). The alignment of Jews like myself and many fellow Christians is one that I feel is very necesary to win the war against evil and have peace in our time. Although I choose to ignore all the leftists and others who try to break up this loving partnership by saying "They are only on your side becuase they want the Jews in control of Jerusalem so Christ returns," I am looking to explore what the Bible really teaches about the Jewish fate from the Christian perspective. It is hard to find what the majority opinion is because the internet is, well, the internet. What I have made out so far is that during rapture I beleive 2/3's of Jews are killed, but one third survive. So my questions are:
1) What do the 2/3's of Jews die from (war, just happens????)
2) What happens to the remaning 1/3 of Jews after they survive?
3) Do any of this remaining 1/3 of Jews make it past the final judgement of God (some interpertations say no, others say the remaining Jews are allowed to pass once accepting God and I think Christ)
I truly beleive in my Jewish fate as I have been raised Jewish, but my mom is Christian. So each religion I respect and believe are good. Ultimately, I hope us Jews and Christians both make it together to the promised land (and only the Muslims are sent to hell!)
Thanks for all your answers. Also, feel free to direct me to anywhere where I can learn more about this subject.
Which physical signs are you referring to here, Kosta?
My sources show that Copts are still heretics, but that most (not all) have rejected Monophysitism. But, of course, my sources are too conservative for you.
I still think the Catholics and Protestants always held jesus in the same way as we have; the Coptcs didn't. Why should Copts receive Eucharist in the Orthodox Church and noth Catholics?
Do you know the person who writes that website? He used to attend the (ROCOR) church where I was baptized and chrismated. And before that he attended the church right down the road from it, not a block away. A Greek church.
Well why shouldn't they, actually? According to your statements, I would think you would be glad we were opening our Mysteries up to more Christians.
Calling it the way it is. You quoted me out of context. I was talking about the shame of allowing Coptics to play with us whereas other Christians who believe in Christ just as we do are not worthy of "our" Eucharist.
God offered His son to all. Makingthe Eucharist "exclusive" is arrogant, MarMema. If you can't see that, I am sorry.
I am at peace. I just don't think the Church is living in Christ by refusing Christians to partake of the Eucharist and all the other little things.
So you feel at peace about your choice to reject the church, is that correct? You are not angry or bitter or resentful of the way the Orthodox church operates. Is that right?
And this complements your tagline...how?
Yes I would be happy if we offer Eucharist, as Christ did, to all, not as we pick and choose. What is deplorable is that we offer it to those who deny that Jesus is fully God and fully Man, MarMema, but we deny it to those who say "and from the Son" even though they share with us that Jesus Christ is Godman, with two distinct natures.
It's probably best to remember that we are not yet theologians. And actually much of what is said about this makes perfect sense to me. Besides which, Holy Scripture states it the way we do.
I have been told that this is no longer true.
My peace comes from God, MarMema; yours seems to be from the Orthodox Church -- but not just any Orthodox Church, only the Orthodox Church that you agree with.
That is part of the problem. The hermits did not know theology yet they walked on water. The bishop couldn't -- his theology and Holy orders notwithstanding.
Theology is not faith. It took me a while to realize that. Theology is a rationalization of faith, within our capacities.
Jesus did not give us theology; he gave us commandments: love your God with all your heart and with all your soul and your neighbor as much as yourself.
You know what MarMema, we can't do it. We all sink! So we invent theology to 'justify' our inability to walk on water. People who have faith do not need theology.
Jesus did not tell us to cross, or to cross with three fingers...what you don't understand is that 99% of what we do in church is human invention.
If you denied yourself the Eucharist because you didn't think you were worthy of it, then maybe you can in clear conscience deny someone else for the same reason. Just because you are Orthodox does not make you better, nor more worthy in the yes of God.
As for the standard worn-out cliche of the more holy and wise people, should I remind you that the wisest fell into error (Tertullian, Origen) and the listing of anti-semitic Christian fathers is proof that none is above sin or error.
Which is a story to introduce the belief in the Orthodox church that clergy are not more able to access the Truth than the simplest peasant. And also points out that we don't emphasize theology but constant prayer, in the Orthodox church.
Yes. That is why we are conciliar and rely on concensus.
Be that as it may, Kosta, the "externals" are helpful in guiding the "internals".
That is true Kosta. And also what the church teaches.
Which complements your tagline....how?
The Copts call themselves "miaphysite" -- implying conjoined nature for Christ, both human and divine, united indivisibly in the Incarnation.
To me that is beating around the bush, rationalizations, because in the end it still sound slike one nature, joined or not.
If you say so, I guess it must be true.
But that's not how it acts.
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