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To: Grey Ghost II
...read my post. It was about Opus Dei. Another poster claimed that if I couldn't prove my assertions, then I shouldn't be posting them.

My comments were general on purpose, because I did not intend my post as an attack on anyone in particular. I cc'd you on my post because you were the person who was currently arguing with Blessed at that time. In retrospect I should not have done so. I am sorry if my post came across as a specific indictment of you.

...to admonish me for not posting "evidence" is childish

If by evidence you mean a doctoral dissertation with footnotes, then I certainly agree. However, let us consider your original post:

Opus Dei is a cult. Opus Dei hates tradition. Opus dei loves the Novus Ordo. Opus Dei defends EVERYTHING JPII does. Those things aren't good in my book.

Again, I ask you: what is the function of that post (or, for that matter, any post)? I can think of two ends that a poster might have in mind.

1. To offend the reader: I do not believe that this was your intent. I include it only for completeness. But I think that you would agree that any post made for the specific purpose of inciting anger in another person is a sin, no?

2. To convince the reader of your position.

St. Thomas, when he is speaking of the attributes of God, says that the divine Wisdom consists in that God always chooses the means that are appropriate to the end. It would then be fair to define Foolishness, which Scripture frequently constrasts with Wisdom, as the choice of means that are not appropriate to the end.

I am assuming that your end in your above post was to warn your fellow Catholics against the danger that you believe Opus Dei represents (please correct me if I am wrong). So let us consider two readers: Reader #1 knows nothing about Opus Dei, Reader #2 is involved with them but has not yet, "drunk the Kool-Aid."

So judge in your own case: is your post Wise or Foolish? That is, is it fit to attain your end or not? How do you think that these two readers would respond to your post?

Skipping back a bit: I have had several negative, personal experiences with Opus Dei. If you don't like my opinions then fine.

Actually, I am very interested in your opinions. I know nothing about Opus Dei except that it was bashed in the Da Vinci Code (which doesn't exactly incline me against it) and that you think it is a cult. If your experience is not too personal, would you consider letting me know what it is that Opus Dei has done that disturbs you?

Read your own words. In your effort to be holier than thou, you are coming across as as Pharisee.

I am deeply sorry for whatever I said that offended you. Please believe that it was not my intent.

78 posted on 11/24/2004 12:03:27 PM PST by Credo_in_unum_deum (Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.)
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To: Credo_in_unam_Deum
Good, Catholic posts. Falls under "Blessed be the peacemakers..."

1. ...But I think that you would agree that any post made for the specific purpose of inciting anger in another person is a sin, no?

True, and somebody better draw that heavy Confession curtain pretty doggone quick, 'cause there's gonna be a mad rush.

Don't know if you'd know or not, but is it a sin to hope for the excommunication of a person or people? And as a Catholic, is it a sin to tell somebody to drop dead? Also, profanity is a venial sin, right?

80 posted on 11/24/2004 12:31:46 PM PST by AlbionGirl (+Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum+)
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To: Credo_in_unam_Deum
Again, I ask you: what is the function of that post (or, for that matter, any post)? I can think of two ends that a poster might have in mind.

The function of the post was in response to another post telling another poster that they hadn't established why Opus Dei is bad. I believe Opus Dei is bad for the Faith because I believe it is a de facto cult, I believe they place no value on the Traditions of the Church and I believe they are such defenders of John Paul II and everything he does that they lose credibility. We can disagree whether Opus Dei is bad or not, but the religion forum is full of opinions. That's why we are here.

So judge in your own case: is your post Wise or Foolish?

Neither. Not everything we do falls into one category of the other. Is it wise or foolish to order a pizza on Saturday night? Just stating my opinion, based upon personal experiences.

If your experience is not too personal, would you consider letting me know what it is that Opus Dei has done that disturbs you?

My three sisters were kicked out of an Opus Dei grade school, even though they were very devout practicing Catholics, received very good grades and paid full tuition. The reason: my parents would not permit them to formally join Opus Dei and become numeraries, super numeraries, etc. They were publicly humiliated in front of other students for not joining.

I have my own personal experience: I was confronted at a social gathering by some lay people who were active in Opus Dei (different city than my sisters). They asked if I had ever considered joining Opus Dei. I replied that I had considered it but decided against it. When asked why, I replied that I felt that since I was baptized a Catholic and a life-long practicing Catholic, I was already a member of the only group I thought I needed to belong to (i.e. the Catholic Church). They replied that I was a "Protestant to think like that" and that I needed more than a personal relationship with Christ. Anyway, being a practicing Catholic was not good enough for them.

I have other instances but these are just a couple of personal experiences which have led me to believe what I do about Opus Dei. In hindsight I probably should have stated my reasons again so that new posters and lurkers knew I was speaking from personal experience. For that I apologize.

I am deeply sorry for whatever I said that offended you. Please believe that it was not my intent.

Thank you and I appreciate your sincerity but an apology is not necessary. I will take your advice seriously and try to be more careful in the future. God Bless.

81 posted on 11/24/2004 12:45:16 PM PST by Grey Ghost II
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