Posted on 11/15/2004 6:36:24 PM PST by Deo volente
In the end and with as much Charity as is possible, I have to agree. I would bet everything I own though, that he realizes this, and it preys upon his conscience. It's impossible for him not to see it. Especially as illness has laid him low, and given him plenty of time to reflect upon the whole of his Pontificate, both the bare and the sublime.
And, I wonder, if he reflects upon any acutal exommunications he meted out, as he reflects upon the Mahoneys of the Church, and the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit in that Cleveland Diocese insignia, if he asks himself, were my excommunications just?
"I would bet everything I own though, that he realizes this"
He may not know as much as we assume he does. Most stuff he gets to see will be filtered through the bishops and his advisers and many people only want him to see good news. (After all its the new spingtime!)
The average Vatican secretary receives 30,000 pieces of correspondence each year, so most will only receive pro-forma replies and be filed.
If all bishops manipulate their statistics to the point that one I know here did, before his ad limina visit, then it is not safe to assume that the Pope is given an accurate picture of the state of things. That is one area where a good nuncio who is pro-Rome can make a lot of difference.
However, I agree that he must be aware of some of the major stuff.
Troubling, maybe.
News? Nope. Mahony's been de-facto out of the Church since at least his days in Sacramento.
I realize he may not be able to perhaps even do that now, but the crumbling of his Church did not begin yesterday. Another question for you, who chooses the men closest to the Pope? Don't mean that to be an ignorant question. I'm just wondering if rules and/or protocol dictate who you can surround yourself by to one degree or another.
"has John Paul been so divorced from his pastoral duties in which he would seek out independent data himself, and be able to get a fairly accurate general overview of things, to assess the state of his Church, and by extension the protection provided or denied his Sheep?"
I wouldn't dare to hazard a guess as to what steps he may or may not have taken to keep tabs on things at the grass roots. He is very committed to this philosophy of collegiality, however, and possibly thinks its not his problem - his brother bishops are there to do a job and its up to them to get on with it.
Which leads on to your other point:
"who chooses the men closest to the Pope? .... I'm just wondering if rules and/or protocol dictate who you can surround yourself by to one degree or another."
Ultimately, the bishops, cardinals and his curial advisers are all chosen by the Pope. Why he has chosen so many who are plainly not up to the job, God alone knows, but "ecumenical" credentials seem to have a lot to do with it.
Rules, protocol, politics and blackmail do play their part with some appointments, but ultimately the decisions are his.
Where is the original quote from Mahoney? What is the source?
I have yet to see a cardinal disciplined. The priests are more likely to get slapped down. There is no equality before ecclesiastical law or papal authority.
"What's puzzling you is the nature of my game" -Sympathy for the Devil
My Priest's Sermon was excellent, if a little scary. When he was elaborating on the state of confusion in the Church, he reminded everyone of one of the final scenes in the Exorcist, where Satan is finally exorcised, and he makes his way through the wall leaving the word confusion scrawled upon it. It was a powerful point.
"What's puzzling you is the nature of my game"
...'em mean it!
Says it all, doesn't it? Mahony likes to flip the bird to the Holy Father but woe betide anyone who crosses him.
" I will do as I please, and you will do as I please,", is his motto. So much for liberalism and "enlightenment".
I'm thinking that the priestly abuse scandal will see off Roger Cardinal Mahony.
With any luck the lawsuits will empty his coffers and he'll also end up in the hoosegow for obstruction of justice.
"Where is the original quote from Mahoney? What is the source?"
Here it is. Good luck wading through the rest of his gobbledegook.
"While we all must constantly re-evaluate our liturgical practice and not allow it to become routine or careless, I have determined that there is no need to make any significant changes in our liturgical practice at this time. Our Auxiliary Bishops, our Deans, and I have been visiting the parishes throughout the Archdiocese regularly over these past years. Especially following the promulgation of Gather Faithfully Together, we have been pleased with the care with which the Eucharist is planned and celebrated. We have not become aware of any serious abuses."
http://www.the-tidings.com/2004/0910/liturgy.htm
"If he had been serious about trying, he would have taken a plane to Los Angeles and other places and driven these heretics from the Church by beating them over head with his crozier."
Now, that's funny. I like it.
What in tarnation is Gather Faithfully Together?! I was pretty sure that the General Instruction of the Roman Missal was the standard that laid a solid groundwork for liturgical norms.
"Now, that's funny. I like it."
I suppose it conjures up a potentially humorous mental image...but I wasn't kidding.
"Gather Faithfully Together" is Cardinal Mahony's "treatise" on the Sunday Mass. It was designed for the Archdiocese, but given Mahony's immense reach, it has unfortunately become a model for many other dioceses.
If you're an exceptionally patient person, you may be able to get through it.
I know I can't!
http://www.la-archdiocese.org/Eucharist/E970904.html
Pope John Paul II, in calling us to the Jubilee Year, praises the Second Vatican Council and says this:
< pope >The best preparation for the new millennium can only be expressed in a renewed commitment to apply, as faithfully as possible, the teachings of Vatican II to the life of every individual and of the whole Church.< /pope >
Let's do it. But uh... what are the teachings of Vatican II?
I wonder if it would help to know that. Maybe. Or something. And stuff.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, has ever been able to tell me what the "teachings of Vatican II" are. Ever.
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