I didn't say that salvation is faith + repentence, I offered that as a definition for conversion. It seems that it would be fruitful if you would define your terminology since it appears we are both using words that convey a different concept to each of us.
Regeneration preceeds conversion. This was the historical perspective of the church and this is true orthodoxy.
I have no argument with you here. Where we diverge is in your attempt to place a time lag between these two actions.
My conviction is that regeneration is synonymous with the new birth. It logically follows the internal call in the Ordo Salutis, which suzyjaruki was kind enough to post earlier. Your scenario concerning Abraham, to my way of thinking, attempts to make the internal call a post-regenerative activity. I would reiterate that this view produces a born-again unbeliever.
To further clarify my perspective, I would define "salvation" as the entire process from election to glorification, ergo, the term "Ordo Salutis". This is a logical progression and is not intended to be a temporal timeline. Wouldn't you agree? There may be a time lag involved for certain portions of the Ordo Salutis such as the time between the outward call and the inward call, sanctification and glorification, but not between regeneration and conversion and the Ordo Salutis does not force any temporal relationship.
Consider an evangelistic rally during which many come forward, raise a hand, sign a card, etc. Some may even go to church, pray, witness, as a response to that event. Some go on to produce fruit. But some, as the Parable of the Seeds teaches, fall away. Shall we term their "decision for Christ" regeneration? I would think not. Yet this is what your perspective on Abraham would suggest. Abraham in Gen. 12 responds to God much like the one responding at the rally, yet it is in Gen. 15 where we are told Abraham believes God. It is in this chapter that the inward call coupled with regeneration produces the faithful response of Abraham.
My apologies. I see your difference.
To further clarify my perspective, I would define "salvation" as the entire process from election to glorification, ergo, the term "Ordo Salutis". This is a logical progression and is not intended to be a temporal timeline. Wouldn't you agree?
Yes, I do believe “salvation” is a logical progression and not a temporal timeline as you have offered. The Biblical examples of Abraham (and Cornelius for that matter) are rare glimpses where this logical progression "stretches itself out" in scripture. To us it is viewed as a temporal causation but shouldn’t be construed this way. To God it is a logical progression. It’s my personal belief the two events, one in the Old Testament and one in the New Testament, are meant to show there is no difference in the logical process by which God redeems His elect.
Implying that Abraham was somehow, in time, redeemed in Chapter 12 and justified in Chapter 15 is incorrect and does sound like double salvation. This is not what I meant although I can now see how you’ve construed this view and I appreciate the correction. As you have suggested this is a logical progression of a single act of God. Abraham was not “saved” in Chapter 12 and “saved” again in Chapter 15. These chapters only reflect the logical progression of Abraham’s election to glorification experience assuming election is referring to his predestination and glorification is his resurrection. (If I’m using those terms right.)
I continue to stand by my assertion these events do in fact illustrate regeneration preceding conversion. I will confess since this thread started I have done a lot of reading from various theologians as to what constitute “regeneration” and many people use the term differently often within the same article adding to the confusion. From the Biblical examples of Abraham, Cornelius and others there was a point in time when God appeared, in whatever form, and they followed His commands. This to me is regeneration and to follow God must require faith. But as we see from these examples confession followed later (I know temporal again). However, you’re correct that this should be viewed as one event as election, regeneration, confession, justification, glorification and should not be viewed temporally but logically. (Hope I didn’t leave any “ions” out.)